Originally posted by h1a8
What were Panthers feats? His suit was vibranium right?
Panther seemed to be able to handle Bucky every time he encoutered him until an outside force came along(Cap, Helictoper, etc ). He also had a brief scuffle with Cap where he appeared to be about equal however it was very brief. He seemed a bit faster than Cap during they're comparative encounters with Bucky
Yeah the suit was Vibranium
Originally posted by McNasty996This. Panther handled WS easier than Cap did. I don't typically like A>B>C arguments, but it seems valid here.
Panther seemed to be able to handle Bucky every time he encoutered him until an outside force came along(Cap, Helictoper, etc ). He also had a brief scuffle with Cap where he appeared to be about equal however it was very brief. He seemed a bit faster than Cap during they're comparative encounters with BuckyYeah the suit was Vibranium
To be fair to Winter Soldier, Black Panther was out to kill, and actively trying to rip Bucky's throat out during their encounters. Bucky was generally already on the run from someone else, or trying to explain things, when they fought. Even when Winter Soldier was mind-controlled, his priority wasn't engaging Black Panther, but rather escaping the building.
That being said, out-of-suit Black Panther did hold up better against mind-controlled Bucky than Steve did. Black Panther managed to engage him fairly equally twice (and even kick him into a wall the second time), whereas Steve got overwhelmed and tossed down an elevator shaft.
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Yeah. But steve was trying to talk to him as well. And bucky schooled the whole team of bw, sharin and tchalla. Maybe not schooled on bp, but i felt like he won
What? There was no talking when they fought in that instance. Steve and Sam came down and saw the containment unit busted, and everyone laid out. Steve was talking to Zemo when Bucky jumped them, quickly dropped Sam, and then engaged Steve, pushing him back before BFR'ing him. Now granted, Bucky did have the element of surprise there, and never gave Steve any time to get his bearings, whereas T'Challa got the jump on WS both times while Bucky was mind-controlled.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
What? There was no talking when they fought in that instance. Steve and Sam came down and saw the containment unit busted, and everyone laid out. Steve was talking to Zemo when Bucky jumped them, quickly dropped Sam, and then engaged Steve, pushing him back before BFR'ing him. Now granted, Bucky did have the element of surprise there, and never gave Steve any time to get his bearings, whereas T'Challa got the jump on WS both times while Bucky was mind-controlled.
To be fair with Steve, WS jumped him. He was unprepared, was reeling from being surprised at Bucky's attitude shift.
T'challa had the benefit of already seeing Bucky take out BW and Sharon and so he knew what he was in for. WS got the better of him at that point and he got the better of Bucky a few seconds later.
Originally posted by FrothByte
To be fair with Steve, WS jumped him. He was unprepared, was reeling from being surprised at Bucky's attitude shift.T'challa had the benefit of already seeing Bucky take out BW and Sharon and so he knew what he was in for. WS got the better of him at that point and he got the better of Bucky a few seconds later.
Yeah, well that's why I said he got the jump on him and never really let Cap get his bearings (Steve only managed to land like one proper hit during the exchange). It could be said that Winter Soldier also had a bit of an advantage in that he'd already had a bit of a "warm up" match against the government agents in that room (and Sam) before going after Steve. Bucky was pretty much already in fifth gear, while Steve was still jamming the keys into the ignition.
And as I did later point out, T'Challa had the advantage of getting the drop on Bucky both times. First when he was occupied with Widow, and later when BP came jumping from some random balcony, like a super ninja. And beyond Sharon and Widow, he had already tussled with him a bit on that rooftop, while suited up.
It should also be noted that in The Winter Soldier, Bucky was programmed to kill and eliminate Steve. Which is quite a different mindset when he was just trying to run away from BP.
A more telling fight would be their skirmish in the airport, and it seemed BP had WS dead to rights if it wasn't for Wanda.
Originally posted by FrothByte
A more telling fight would be their skirmish in the airport, and it seemed BP had WS dead to rights if it wasn't for Wanda.
That's kind of a similar situation, as Black Panther was actively trying to kill Winter Soldier, who he thought had killed his father, whereas Bucky was trying to explain that it wasn't him, and was not trying to kill Black Panther in return.
"I didn't kill your father."
"Then why did you run?"
At which point T'Challa literally went for his throat.
These three are very close overall, IMO. Close enough that the gear they happen to be packing, plus their emotional/mental/motivational state at that point, could be the tipping factor in a fight. But it is hard to get a very good gauge sometimes, because the majority of their encounters have some plot elements involved.
It should also be noted that when Black Panther and Winter Soldier fought at the airport, Black Panther was in his full suit, with claws. Bucky had nothing but his arm, and it didn't seem to help much. Either BP's suit further enhances his strength, or has some tech that allows him to screw with WS' arm. On the rooftop, when they fought initially, Black Panther thrust down and Winter Soldier had to strain with even his metal arm against T'Challa's. And during the airport fight, Black Panther was able to pry Bucky's metal arm from his throat with one hand.
In contrast to this, at one point when he fought Bucky out of his suit, T'Challa got his metal arm in a lock using both his own arms, yet Bucky started powering out of the hold with just that arm.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
That's kind of a similar situation, as Black Panther was actively trying to kill Winter Soldier, who he thought had killed his father, whereas Bucky was trying to explain that it wasn't him, and was not trying to kill Black Panther in return."I didn't kill your father."
"Then why did you run?"
At which point T'Challa literally went for his throat.
These three are very close overall, IMO. Close enough that the gear they happen to be packing, plus their emotional/mental/motivational state at that point, could be the tipping factor in a fight. But it is hard to get a very good gauge sometimes, because the majority of their encounters have some plot elements involved.
That's a good point. WS was still defensive I guess. I'm actually somewhat irritated at how powerful they showed BP in this show. I felt like WS should have put up a better fight even if he wasn't intent on killing BP, kinda like how Cap was able to put up a good fight against WS even if he wasn't willing to kill him. BP being able to overpower WS's robot arm just didn't make sense to me, not when Cap was so clearly overpowered by it.
Originally posted by FrothByte
That's a good point. WS was still defensive I guess. I'm actually somewhat irritated at how powerful they showed BP in this show. I felt like WS should have put up a better fight even if he wasn't intent on killing BP, kinda like how Cap was able to put up a good fight against WS even if he wasn't willing to kill him. BP being able to overpower WS's robot arm just didn't make sense to me, not when Cap was so clearly overpowered by it.
Well, the guy has what Cap has in his shield, but all over. Plus added claws. And he was only able to do it in his suit, which makes me think there is some tech involved. See here:
At 0:25 Bucky has to strain, even with the metal arm, to hold T'Challa back.
At 1:57 again, Black Panther seemingly overpowers Bucky's metal arm.
Now in contrast, look at 1:28. Black Panther is using both his arms, and has leverage, but Winter Soldier starts to push out of the hold.
I'd say Black Panther would have the edge in a fight with gear. Every shield bash from Steve is going to be a vibranium hit, but it will be impacting vibranium protection. Every hit (or kick) T'Challa lands will have vibranium behind it, seeing as he is totally covered, but, unless Cap successfully blocks with the shield, will be hitting lesser armour/exposed flesh, which is only made worse for Cap by the fact that BP has vibranium claws.
Street clothes and no weapons would be tough to call.