Originally posted by DarthAnt66Yes, but Dooku didn't understand the extent of Kenobi's skill at that point and was underestimating him. His entire attack sequence was focused on countering a form Kenobi wasn't using.
Dooku's attack, albeit directed toward an Ataru user not Soresu, was easily handled by Kenobi. That's pretty solid indication of what Kenobi is packing.
Kenobi's Master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui-Gon thousands of times, and he knew every weakness of the Ataro form, with its ridiculous acrobatics. He drove a series of flashing thrusts toward Kenobi's legs to draw the Jedi Master into a flipping overhead leap so that Dooku could burn through his spine from kidneys to shoulder blades-and this image, ​this plan, was so clear in Dooku's mind that he almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet​, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, ​he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.​
Originally posted by DarthAnt66In a sabers only confrontation, sure, it could play out loosely like that; but Kenobi isn't nearly as overwhelming or physically taxing as Darth Vader, who Ahsoka held out for a respectable time with despite being on the defensive, and even still she was mounting attacks every so often. In in all out, she can use the Force to gain her an edge when her lightsaber abilities aren't doing the trick.
As a Soresu practitioner, Kenobi can preserve far more energy defending than Tano would be attacking. A prolonged engagement is only going to further benefit Kenobi. As Tano weakens, Kenobi can launch an offensive (something he proved capable of doing against Maul/Opress and Hett), and then end it that way.
Kenobi's offensive against Maul and Opress was incredibly circumstantial, and Kenobi never fought Hett in canon, bae.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Ahsoka quickly gained an edge over Vader in their initial bout, kicking him in the head and Force pushing him, so to be honest, she could probably gain an early advantage and throw Kenobi off with martial attacks and telekinesis.
Tano's best bet is to win quickly, but she's not powerful or skilled enough to do that.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66If we're putting that much stock into the novel, Kenobi was almost killed by a single MagnaGuard. Ahsoka is going to press him.
I'm honestly not convinced Tano would even pressure Kenobi. Kenobi was handling thousands of battledroids from all angles on Utapau just fine.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66I mean, I'd agree if we knew just how much telekinetic might Anakin could muster in that broken mental state, but we don't. Anakin is notorious for faltering when he isn't focused or clear-headed.
It's a better display of power than what Tano did to Vader.
Fact is, Kenobi has never really landed a push on someone even close to as powerful as Vader.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Vader was looking directly at her when she came at him and was engaged and prepared for combat, it would make literally no sense that his defenses would be down.
Context should be considered, and in so it's clear Tano pushed Vader with his defenses down.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Kanan only gripped the Inquisitor when he was under the impression Kanan was unconscious, and was focused on executing Ezra. At literally no other point does Kanan use telekinesis against the Inquisitor. If Kanan had, in a legitimate manner, you would have a point, but even in the final fight between the Inquisitor and Kanan, the Inquisitor throws him with the Force. Kanan defeated the Inquisitor because of tactics, and a clear-headed, focused attitude. Throughout the entirety of season one of Rebels, Kanan's doubt, fear, and self-consciousness restricted his abilities; so when he thought Ezra had died, he let go of it all and was capable of besting the Inquisitor. That was the entire purpose of Kanan's arc during the first season.
Not that pushing someone means anything in the Rebels continuity, where the Inquisitor is capable of dismissing Kanan with a wave of his hand for a dozen seconds, but then have Kanan pin him against the wall directly thereafter. Also, the Inquistior dominated Kanan with telekinesis during their fight below the Communication Tower, and yet Kanan bested him in combat only a short time afterward in their final fight.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Force users must have some form of defense, or else TK attacks would be far more prevalent. Plus, Filoni's team coordinates with the story group so everything in canon meshes well, so I really doubt the TV shows operate on some different level in regards to Force defenses.
The concept of the Force barrier, as described in Legends works and other Canon novels, doesn't seem to be applied to the Rebels continuity, at least not in a situation like this: http://i.imgur.com/VXuElFm.png. The only barrier we ever seen put up across all of Filoni's work came along with a visible representation of defense (Kenobi and Anakin against Dooku on the Netflix series).
Yes, but Dooku didn't understand the extent of Kenobi's skill at that point and was underestimating him. His entire attack sequence was focused on countering a form Kenobi wasn't using.
Kenobi's response to this friendly word was to regard him with a twinkle of gentle amusement in his eye."Very well, then," the Jedi said, and shot straight upward over Dooku's head so fast it seemed he'd vanished.
And in the space where Kenobi's chest had been was now only the blue lightning of Skywalker's blade driving straight for Dooku's heart.
Only a desperate whirl to one side made what would have been a smoking hole in his chest into a line of scorch through his armorweave cloak.
Dooku thought, What?
He threw himself spinning up and away from the two Jedi to land on the situation table, disengaging for a moment to recover his composure-that had been entirely too close-but by the time his boots touched down Kenobi was there to meet him, blade weaving through a defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a strike; he threw a feint toward Kenobi's face, then dropped and spun in a reverse ankle-sweep- But not only did Kenobi easily overleap this attack, Dooku nearly lost his own foot to a slash from Skywalker who had again come out of nowhere and now carved through the table so that it collapsed under Dooku's weight and dumped the Sith Lord unseremoniously to the floor. This was not in the plan.
Take note of the above, as well.
First we see Kenobi moving so fast that Dooku thought he vanished. Next we see Kenobi moving just as fast as Dooku, blocking his escape. And then we have Kenobi mounting such an overwhelming defense that Dooku couldn't possibly make an attack. Note the text does not suggest Dooku attempted to counter the defense with an Ataru or Shii-Cho specific maneuver. It simply stated that "Dooku dared not even *try* a strike" in general. Such a level of defensive capabilities is significantly beyond anything Ahsoka Tano can hope to penetrate. She's no Dooku, after all. Not even close, really.
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In a sabers only confrontation, sure, it could play out loosely like that; but Kenobi isn't nearly as overwhelming or physically taxing as Darth Vader, who Ahsoka held out for a respectable time with despite being on the defensive, and even still she was mounting attacks every so often.
Ahsoka Tano *is* going to be losing significantly more energy than Obi-Wan Kenobi is during the the fight.
Obi-Wan Kenobi *is* capable of handling Ahsoka Tano's offensive when he handled someone's like Dooku's.
Ahsoka Tano *is* going to mess up first. She's slower, less skilled, less experienced, and honestly less powerful.
In in all out, she can use the Force to gain her an edge when her lightsaber abilities aren't doing the trick.
I doubt Ahsoka Tano would have much better success.
Or at the very least, you haven't presented any evidence she could.
Kenobi's offensive against Maul and Opress was incredibly circumstantial, and Kenobi never fought Hett in canon, bae.
Ahsoka quickly gained an edge over Vader in their initial bout, kicking him in the head and Force pushing him, so to be honest, she could probably gain an early advantage and throw Kenobi off with martial attacks and telekinesis.
If we're putting that much stock into the novel, Kenobi was almost killed by a single MagnaGuard. Ahsoka is going to press him.
Within the context of the novel, said MagnaGuard was implied to be more capable of handling Jedi than Grievous ("Grievous was starting to think less about winning this particular encounter than about surviving it. Let his MagnaGuards fight the Jedi; that's what they were designed for-and they were doing their jobs well."😉 and operated nearly at the speed of light ("each with reflexes that operated near lightspeed, each with hypersophisticated heuristic combat algorithms that enabled it to learn from experience and adapt its tactics instantly to any situation..."😉. I hate to say it, but Tano's blatantly not a more dominating combatant than *that*, so the point is mute.
I mean, I'd agree if we knew just how much telekinetic might Anakin could muster in that broken mental state, but we don't. Anakin is notorious for faltering when he isn't focused or clear-headed.
Vader was looking directly at her when she came at him and was engaged and prepared for combat, it would make literally no sense that his defenses would be down.
Kanan only gripped the Inquisitor when he was under the impression Kanan was unconscious, and was focused on executing Ezra. At literally no other point does Kanan use telekinesis against the Inquisitor. If Kanan had, in a legitimate manner, you would have a point, but even in the final fight between the Inquisitor and Kanan, the Inquisitor throws him with the Force. Kanan defeated the Inquisitor because of tactics, and a clear-headed, focused attitude. Throughout the entirety of season one of Rebels, Kanan's doubt, fear, and self-consciousness restricted his abilities; so when he thought Ezra had died, he let go of it all and was capable of besting the Inquisitor. That was the entire purpose of Kanan's arc during the first season.
He should have been well aware of his presence and potential threat.
Unless there's a novel about the fight that supports your viewpoint, it's unsupported and defies logic.
Force users must have some form of defense, or else TK attacks would be far more prevalent.
Plus, Filoni's team coordinates with the story group so everything in canon meshes well, so I really doubt the TV shows operate on some different level in regards to Force defenses.
Because clearly Rebels portrayal of the Force is sluggish, whereas novels classically have it frequently used.
A blatant distinction can easily be made by simply looking at it.
(Pt. 2) Ultimately, there's little evidence to really even suggest Darth Vader's a more skilled duelist than Obi-Wan Kenobi in the Canon continuity, let alone to the point where Ahsoka Tano faring decently against him is more impressive than Obi-Wan Kenobi capable of handling the Darth Maul or Savage Opress duo or being significantly beyond Dooku's offensive capabilities. Like I pointed out, Old Ben alone might be better than Tano. In regards to the Force, even if Ahsoka Tano fair and square pushed Darth Vader, which she probably didn't, Kenobi should still handle said assault when he was backhanding an enraged Mustafar Anakin Skywalker just fine. Or at the very least, its dishonest to say that Tano has a significant Force edge that would clearly tip the tide in her favor when she doesn't. Kenobi will handle Tano's offense, tire her, and then destroy it.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Within the context of the novel, said MagnaGuard was implied to be more capable of handling Jedi than Grievous ("Grievous was starting to think less about winning this particular encounter than about surviving it. Let his MagnaGuards fight the Jedi; that's what they were designed for-and they were doing their jobs well."😉 and operated nearly at the speed of light ("each with reflexes that operated near lightspeed, each with hypersophisticated heuristic combat algorithms that enabled it to learn from experience and adapt its tactics instantly to any situation..."😉. I hate to say it, but Tano's blatantly not a more dominating combatant than *that*, so the point is mute.
Lol.
Also it's "moot".
Read again, I'm talking about your idea's on Magnaguards. Your arguments are clearly bunk. Grievous is implying no such thing and those reflexes are still nothing compared to the force. The idea that a MG would be anything but fodder for Vader or even Ahsoka is ridiculous.
Also you don't get to be so dismissive of an argument you've consistently failed to rebut. It's transparent you're attempting to dodge the issue because you have no real response.
