Darth Malgus vs Darth Malak

Started by Nephthys2 pages

You disagree that Malgus beat Zallow a decade and a half from his prime and before Malgus got the huge boost at the end of Deceived? Thus making a comparison between them as if that's Malgus' peak stupid?

Except to become stronger in the force. This was after she consumed the power of the 3 Jedi Masters. And how do you know that Malak was a better duelist than her? She could easily be more skilled than he was given her several decades over him. The fact of the matter is that Traya has better shit than him across the board.

Originally posted by SunRazer
[B]Nah, what you said just hit me. Malgus would indeed handily beat either Atton or Sion. Not Traya, though.

He'd pretty handily beat her guard down given he's stronger, has beaten far more skilled individuals than Rand at his peak, and Zallow is per performance not even his best defeat. So yeah again still waiting for you to show any evidence that Traya would perform better than Zallow, or is in anyway comparable

Rand has no feats? He's beaten Sion whilst drowned in the dark side, and 40 years prior to KotOR II, Sion's butchered "experts in lightsaber and Force combat" left-and-right. He goes on to study at the Academies on Korriban and Malachor V.

Traya beating him with ease is beyond anything Zallow has to offer, lol.

Sion repeatedly died to no named Jedi over the course of his career, and per accolades Malgus was already roughly on par with him in accomplishments even prior to Deceived. As mentioned Zallow is only his most notable kill, he isn't skillfully better than Leneer.

Who cares about potential? We're taking the versions that they actually appeared as.

Mekhis isn't above Sion, and if we're running on feats and accolades, Baras has nothing around Deceived that's beyond Sion in terms of skill, either. Certainly not beyond Atton.

Baras bested Angral and held off Satele and Darnala at once is better than Sion beating no name Jedi. He would obviously become more powerful but I find that to be a better feat than beating No namers. What evidence is there that Atton could replicate those feats

Given that Traya also slaughtered Atton, I'm not seeing what this huge disparity between Malgus and Traya is based on.

She is never listed as having beaten him in her respect thread wtf? It shows her deflecting his blows and that's it, even in the Atton Rand thread it states that the outcome is dependent. Again she has no depicted duels, and only knows various lightsaber forms. Didn't you even take her victory from non canon cut content?

You're hardly even aware of Traya's feats, so you making these claims is pretty funny to begin with.

She has practically zero depicted duels, so even considering she's even close to Zallow is tantamount to an special pleading on your part.

My point is that Traya > Zallow, who Malgus struggled with. Put Traya on par with Aryn, I don't care. I'm not even saying she's better than Malgus, but she's close enough that Malak, her decisive superior as a warrior, should be above Malgus, or at least equal.

Zallow fought evenly to Malgus prior to him becoming more powerful in the force, and again Aryn performed better than him and fought off a Bloodlusted version that would mow through Traya. Your second statement is a special pleading asking me to scale her without feats she's demonstrated. Besides Malak's best skill feats are losing to Revan in spite of an amp, and beating Bastila. These alone wouldn't put him above Jinn let alone Zallow or Malgus

@Neph - You know what I disagree with you on.

Power boosts don't always equate to skill boosts. ANH Vader didn't get more skilled than Anakin, and Ben Kenobi didn't get more skilled than Obi-Wan Kenobi. I doubt many people think TCW Maul was more skilled than TPM Maul, either.

Alek and Revan were "foremost" among the Jedi warriors in the Mandalorian Wars, so yeah, he's a better duelist than Kreia as of that time. And continues to grow, almost certainly at a greater rate too.

Don't have time to make long posts. I'll respond later.

Why is being better than Traya during the Mando wars something to be proud of? What did she even do then?

He'd obviously be better than her for life, lol. It's not as if she had anything drastic to catch up to him. He was much younger and was much more of a duelist.

So what? So was Sion.

Malak being younger only suggests that he couldn't match her in lightsaber training, knowledge and experience.

Originally posted by SunRazer
@Neph - You know what I disagree with you on.

Power boosts don't always equate to skill boosts. ANH Vader didn't get more skilled than Anakin, and Ben Kenobi didn't get more skilled than Obi-Wan Kenobi. I doubt many people think TCW Maul was more skilled than TPM Maul, either.

Alek and Revan were "foremost" among the Jedi warriors in the Mandalorian Wars, so yeah, he's a better duelist than Kreia as of that time. And continues to grow, almost certainly at a greater rate too.

So you don't deny that Malgus was obviously way the **** better than Zallow in his prime.

Being more powerful would make you a better duelist since you'd be able to translate that into more speed, strength and other combat related abilities. It's not like Atton beat Sion by being a more skilled duelist than him anyway, unless Sion actually does suck ass that he'd lose in skill to a guy trained in sabers for a comparatively minuscule amount of time. On a nexus.

That doesn't mean he's better than her. Did she even fight in the Mandalorian Wars? The Kotor CG suggests she didn't. Kreia isn't the kind of fight in pitched battles.

Sion wasn't inherently better than Kreia, though. And yes, she fought in the Mandalorian Wars. Kavar, Brianna etc. all think that she died in it. Kreia also says Arren Kae joined the War, and we know who that is.

I'll give a more detailed response later.

"Some think that she too has followed Revan, but she traces her padawans footsteps in another way. Kreia is drawn to the force echoes at Malachor V. Within it's Trayas Academy, Kreia encounters assassins left by Revan."

Kavar directly states "I thought you died in the Mandalorian Wars". Kreia replies with "Die? No. Became stronger, yes." She admits being involved and becoming stronger as a result (probably her descent into the dark side).

And again, Kreia reveals that Arren Kae joined the Wars. Kreia is Arren Kae, so yeah, she participated.

Kavar thinks she followed Revan just like the quote says. But Traya actually found Malachor and got stronger from studying the dark side there.

The Kotor CG says otherwise.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"Some think that she too has followed Revan, but she traces her padawans footsteps in another way. Kreia is drawn to the force echoes at Malachor V. Within it's Trayas Academy, Kreia encounters assassins left by Revan."
Lol Neph, all that happens after the Mandalorian Wars, obviously.

The full thing is:

"Kreia silently withdraws from the Jedi. Some think that she too has followed Revan, but she traces her padawans footsteps in another way. Kreia is drawn to the force echoes at Malachor V. Within it's Trayas Academy, Kreia encounters assassins left by Revan."

It's saying that she leaves the Jedi, with people thinking she followed Revan but she really went to Malachor instead. Meaning she didn't fight in the war.

I recall you specifically bashing that source. Now you're using it?

She doesn't go to Malachor until after the Mandalorian Wars.

That source doesn't contradict that fact either way, though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The full thing is:

"Kreia silently withdraws from the Jedi. Some think that she too has followed Revan, but she traces her padawans footsteps in another way. Kreia is drawn to the force echoes at Malachor V. Within it's Trayas Academy, Kreia encounters assassins left by Revan."

It's saying that she leaves the Jedi, with people thinking she followed Revan but she really went to Malachor instead. Meaning she didn't fight in the war.

But she couldn't have gone to Malachor until long after, so what was she doing in the interim, twiddling her thumbs?

Unless this is FE Malgus then I actually see Malak winning 1&3, and SF Malak might even beat FE Malgus.

Malgus in all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So what? So was Sion.

Except Sion wasn't already better than Kreia during the Mandalorian Wars. Malak's already better than her, and wouldn't have scaled worse as he aged. Sion wasn't already better than her, so your comparison's invalid.

Malak being younger only suggests that he couldn't match her in lightsaber training, knowledge and experience.

Experience, perhaps. Nothing more. And there's a point where experience becomes largely irrelevant - I'd say both Traya and Malak have passed that point.

So you don't deny that Malgus was obviously way the **** better than Zallow in his prime.

He would've grown more powerful, but without substantial blade practice, I'm not seeing him getting much more skilled.

Being more powerful would make you a better duelist since you'd be able to translate that into more speed, strength and other combat related abilities. It's not like Atton beat Sion by being a more skilled duelist than him anyway, unless Sion actually does suck ass that he'd lose in skill to a guy trained in sabers for a comparatively minuscule amount of time. On a nexus.

Which speaks to Atton's potential, as opposed to other people's deficiencies. And are we really going to talk about performances against people who "shouldn't be competing with them"? If so, then TOR's record of Jedi and Sith losing to non-Force sensitives is utterly appalling.

That doesn't mean he's better than her. Did she even fight in the Mandalorian Wars? The Kotor CG suggests she didn't. Kreia isn't the kind of fight in pitched battles.

Kreia admits to having fought in the Mandalorian Wars, lol. Moreover, the reason she has so much disdain for war could well be her experience in the Mandalorian Wars in the first place.

Originally posted by carthage
He'd pretty handily beat her guard down given he's stronger, has beaten far more skilled individuals than Rand at his peak

Malgus isn't beating down the guard of someone who no-sells hits from enraged Wookiees. Malgus hasn't beaten anyone that's far more skilled than Atton.

and Zallow is per performance not even his best defeat. So yeah again still waiting for you to show any evidence that Traya would perform better than Zallow, or is in anyway comparable
As mentioned Zallow is only his most notable kill, he isn't skillfully better than Leneer.

If the "most prized" quote about Zallow is being disregarded here, he becomes less impressive, too.

If Traya's better than Zallow, then she'd be Aryn-level by this logic, as well. Malgus was also even with Aryn, rather than her better.

But as for what I have to bring forth for Traya, there's the fact that she pummeled Atton in a duel, but also the fact that she was Brianna's blows despite not even appearing to move - the kind of stompage that Sidious showed against the B-team or Yoda against Plo, Saesee and Depa.

Brianna stalemated Atris, who was canonically more skilled than Kavar even before studying teachings of combat and the Force from dozens of Sith holocrons. The fact that Kreia can B-team Brianna is honestly extremely impressive, perhaps moreso than anything Malgus has ever shown.

Sion repeatedly died to no named Jedi over the course of his career

Given that there's no established upper-limit for these Jedi, that's nothing to put down Sion for. We know he's cut down numerous "no-name" Jedi even before he discovered his immortality.

and per accolades Malgus was already roughly on par with him in accomplishments even prior to Deceived.

Which accolades are you referring to? And given how huge the gap between Traya and Sion is, I couldn't care less if Malgus was Sion's equal. He'd have so much ground to cover to match Traya, then.

Baras bested Angral and held off Satele and Darnala at once is better than Sion beating no name Jedi. He would obviously become more powerful but I find that to be a better feat than beating No namers. What evidence is there that Atton could replicate those feats

Baras never bested Angral with a blade, and Baras' short engagements with Satele and Dar'Nala are hardly out of Sion's paygrade. Baras should be Sion's better, but these showings don't reflect that.

She is never listed as having beaten him in her respect thread wtf? It shows her deflecting his blows and that's it, even in the Atton Rand thread it states that the outcome is dependent. Again she has no depicted duels, and only knows various lightsaber forms. Didn't you even take her victory from non canon cut content?

Sel's thread states the Atton vs Sion one is player-dependent, but the Atton winning one is the "correct" one. Traya vs Atton always ends in Traya's win, lol. And yes, I do have her beating him in the thread.

She has practically zero depicted duels, so even considering she's even close to Zallow is tantamount to an special pleading on your part.

And yet again we show a lack of knowledge on the characters being debated.

Zallow fought evenly to Malgus prior to him becoming more powerful in the force, and again Aryn performed better than him and fought off a Bloodlusted version that would mow through Traya. Your second statement is a special pleading asking me to scale her without feats she's demonstrated. Besides Malak's best skill feats are losing to Revan in spite of an amp, and beating Bastila. These alone wouldn't put him above Jinn let alone Zallow or Malgus

Everything here has already been debunked, lol. There's no proof that Malgus would mow through Traya, and if Malak was better than Kreia as of the Mandalorian Wars, then he'd continue to be better than her for life.