Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Personally, for me, based on the working backwards version of the computer (which is the best one, IMO), the computer wins hands down.It's like playing 4 in a row, or tic tac toe, where even if you know what he's trying to get you to do, you can't stop it happening.
I agree.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Personally, for me, based on the working backwards version of the computer (which is the best one, IMO), the computer wins hands down.It's like playing 4 in a row, or tic tac toe, where even if you know what he's trying to get you to do, you can't stop it happening.
Parkers abilities seem limited to me. Like his SS doesnt extend beyond the now. MNs ability takes him to the battles end with varying outcomes. Not saying ones greater than the other i just wonder if they both were in equalized bodies and faced off in an enclosed space using their precog to the fullest who would strike who first.
Originally posted by ghostman
spider man has dodged light itself. hes above any herald in speed
Dont u have a cock to go suck somewhere?
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Parkers abilities seem limited to me. Like his SS doesnt extend beyond the now. MNs ability takes him to the battles end with varying outcomes. Not saying ones greater than the other i just wonder if they both were in equalized bodies and faced off in an enclosed space using their precog to the fullest who would strike who first.Dont u have a cock to go suck somewhere?
sure, wheres your father?
name a herald that has consistently dodged light as much as spider man, oh dont worry ill wait, this gon be good.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Parkers abilities seem limited to me. Like his SS doesnt extend beyond the now. MNs ability takes him to the battles end with varying outcomes. Not saying ones greater than the other i just wonder if they both were in equalized bodies and faced off in an enclosed space using their precog to the fullest who would strike who first.?
Its also too reactive. Parker can't act until the danger is about to happen - he can't, for example, jump out of a thug's bullet until its been fired.
Whereas Midnighter can go through the entire day preceding the shooting, and prevent the guy from even buying the gun in the first place.
Originally posted by ghostman
sure, wheres your father?name a herald that has consistently dodged light as much as spider man, oh dont worry ill wait, this gon be good.
I never knew my father 😥.
Seriously though. This isnt about speed. This is about ability to predict events and avoid getting hit.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Its also too reactive. Parker can't act until the danger is about to happen - he can't, for example, jump out of a thug's bullet until its been fired.Whereas Midnighter can go through the entire day preceding the shooting, and prevent the guy from even buying the gun in the first place.
This reminds me of this scene iirc with Cho and some super smart villian. They were literally standing still going thru hundreds of scenarios in their heads mapping a fight out before it happened
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Exactly. Nothing to do with speed. He's effectively aim dodging all the time, whereas Midnighter is forcing the gunmen to shoot in a particular spot, one where he has already leapt away from.
I never really considered that. It's kinda like a combat related spatial awareness almost delves into a limited reality warp if taken to extremes
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I never really considered that. It's kinda like a combat related spatial awareness almost delves into a limited reality warp if taken to extremes
I saw it the same way a chessmaster is planning the entire game ahead.
So it doesn't matter what you do, any move you try to make, is on his terms. I did something similar in my example with Shari.
Goddamnit. Sin, if this is bait for me, I'm going to punch you in the face. Anyway, let's find a point of entry...
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Its also too reactive. Parker can't act until the danger is about to happen - he can't, for example, jump out of a thug's bullet until its been fired.Whereas Midnighter can go through the entire day preceding the shooting, and prevent the guy from even buying the gun in the first place.
This is demonstrably false on an epic level. There are literally hundreds of scans of him acting before an attack happens bc of SS, including bullets being fired. You're also overselling MNer's ability a bit. There's no instance of him doing something that far in advance, or even close to it. It's a combat ability, not a "predict the entire universe so it unfolds how I want it" ability.
Look, I'm going to side with Spidey here, and it would be easy to call me a homer. But remember I'm possibly the board's biggest Authority fan as well.
Pete's power is low-level precognition. Precog violates the rules that MNer plays by. Depending on the situation, it's very, very easy for us to draw up scenarios where one has the advantage, so saying one is always better than the other is just dumb. But in a head-to-head fight, MNer is calculating the best course of action, but Pete is reacting to his reaction at or before it happens, with significantly better stats. Even if you normalize stats and skills, one is reacting to reality, while the other is still banking on probability.
Again, it's easy to draw up a scenario where I'm wrong. This isn't Spider-Man v. Midnighter, and there are numerous strategic advantages to the battle computer that don't have to worry about a head-to-head matchup with Pete. So maybe I'm approaching the thread wrong. But spider-sense does have its advantages.
Originally posted by Digi
This is demonstrably false. There are literally hundreds of scans of him acting before an attack happens bc of SS, including bullets being fired.Look, I'm going to side with Spidey here, and it would be easy to call me a homer. But remember I'm possibly the board's biggest Authority fan as well.
Pete's power is low-level precognition. Precog violates the rules that MNer plays by. Depending on the situation, it's very, very easy for us to draw up scenarios where one has the advantage, so saying one is always better than the other is just dumb. But in a head-to-head fight, MNer is calculating the best course of action, but Pete is reacting to his reaction at or before it happens, with significantly better stats. Even if you normalize stats and skills, one is reacting to reality, while the other is still banking on probability.
How far ahead does the precog work? So a thug with a gun is pointed at Petey - does he know a full minute before where the bullet will go? 30 secs? 20? 1?
And with that knowledge (common knowledge rule, PLUS the detection capabilities of the battle computer), would it be too far fetched to create a scenario out of the millions available, that is advantageous to Mids?
Btw, I am using the explanation where he works backwards from the favoured outcome, as that is the best version, I feel.
Edit: to counter the 'overselling' point you made:
He planned the entire day. Sure, he could just be trying to put the fear of god into the villains, but hey, its the best explanation I've seen of how it really works.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How far ahead does the precog work? So a thug with a gun is pointed at Petey - does he know a full minute before where the bullet will go? 30 secs? 20? 1?And with that knowledge (common knowledge rule, PLUS the detection capabilities of the battle computer), would it be too far fetched to create a scenario out of the millions available, that is advantageous to Mids?
Btw, I am using the explanation where he works backwards from the favoured outcome, as that is the best version, I feel.
Edit: to counter the 'overselling' point you made:
He planned the entire day. Sure, he could just be trying to put the fear of god into the villains, but hey, its the best explanation I've seen of how it really works.
It's refuted by the lack of actual planning we've seen on that scale. It's not that I would put it beyond him, it's just that all we have is empty rhetoric like the scan you posted. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but it's not like I'm working with an incomplete knowledge of his feats.
Pete's spider-sense is an immediate danger sense. It can and does respond to low-level dangers like disguised imposters well in advance of an actual attack, so there's no set time limit. But 30 seconds out (or more) is usually outside the norm. Remember that his reflexes are approximately 15x that of a normal human, so a second is a long f---ing time to him.
So we have precognition vs. calculative ability, and in a heads-up fight, I'm taking the precog. Especially backed with Pete's considerably better physical stats. In a straight-up fight, Pete beats Midnighter because of this. Imo, of course, but I also don't think it's without considerable thought (this is far from the first time I've had this conversation on KMC, for example).
It would be easy to devise a way MNer wins. But I also think it would be disingenuous to give him the kind of calculative prep he'd need to fool-proof the fight for himself. In anything that resembles a spur of the moment fight scenario (including standard forum stipulations), he's reacting in-battle...not manipulating the mailman at 8am the morning before in the right way to win the fight.
So I could be convinced the that battle computer is more useful on the whole. Just not that it trumps spider-sense in a direct conflict without lopsided prep.