8th Day Juggernaut vs. Kuurth vs. Classic Juggernaut
Just curious what the consensus is here...
-8th Day Juggernaut-
VS.
-Kuurth-
VS.
-Classic Juggernaut-
Stips:
-All versions start at their peaks -- in classic Juggy's case, his FF is up.
-Battle takes place in the Arena Monarch used in Countdown (we'll assume it is indestructible/inescapable.)
-They fight to the death OR 10-count KO -- H2H only.
Who is the ultimate version of Juggy?
Originally posted by Galan007
Interesting. I figured people would place a double-enchanted Kuurth higher.How does 8th Day bypass classic's FF, iyo?
Classic Juggernaut took a Godblast to the face and only complained that it was SLOWLY forcing him back. He claimed he could have muscled forward but the ground gave way before he could put that claim to the test.
Kuurth has NEVER beaten anyone on Thor's level (like 8th day did) nor has he taken a hit from an attack on the level of a Godblast (like Classic Juggs did). That's why I place him third.
Well, Thor was almost certainly weakened to some degree, as he'd just been getting slapped around by Enrakt right before 8th Day appeared. That said, I could agree that 8th Day is physically stronger than classic(that much was outright stated), but it's really hard to imagine him muscling through that pesky FF. /shrug
I can follow your logic with Kuurth, I suppose, but I'd honestly be shocked if he wasn't right up there with 8th Day in terms of strength. The enchantments he was packing are no joke.
Originally posted by Galan007
I can follow your logic with Kuurth, I suppose, but I'd honestly be shocked if he wasn't right up there with 8th Day in terms of strength. The enchantments he was packing are no joke.
So it was depowered Juggernaut PLUS Serpent's power that = DP Kuurth.
Classic Juggernaut's shield was, for all intents and purposes, unbreakable. The original Marvel rpg, from the era of classic Juggs, ranked his force field at CL3000. That was a high-Celestial level rank (and in that era, Celestials were above Galactus). Thor's, Juggernaut's, Herc's etc. physical strength was CL100. The durabilities of true adamantium and Cap's shield were CL1000 (iirc). Juggs' unstoppability was at CL1000. But his shield was much stronger.
http://silycndrgn.tripod.com/super/juggs.htm
8th Day Juggs might not be able to hurt Classic, despite likely having much greater strength.
Cain was spiritually bound if anyone can recall how, and when the possession took place in the first place. With that said, I'm not entirely certain how much power Cytorrak was willing to impart to the usurper Kuurth, so then it becomes virtually impossible to answer this question and be 100% correct.
Implied power should place Kuurth at the top (maybe), followed by 8th Day Cain, and then Classic Juggernaut at dead last. However I can't see how Kuurth would ever be able to defeat 8th Day Juggernaut. So, stalemate between those two.
Tricky question Galan.
Originally posted by zopzopyou sure about that? When magik and colossus went to cyttorak to ask him to remove the enchantment, he basically replied that juggernaut as he was at that point was doing him proud. Seems like there would be no reason for juggs to still be depowered at that point if he had earned back the favor of cyttorak.
Keep in mind, Juggernaut was nowhere near full power Classic Juggernaut when the Serpent chose him as a minion.So it was depowered Juggernaut PLUS Serpent's power that = DP Kuurth.
/shrug
Originally posted by deathslashI'd be inclined to agree. Cyttorak was VERY happy with Cain/Kuurth initially -- "Marko acts as I would have always wished. He is a hymn to destruction! To my glory!":
you sure about that? When magik and colossus went to cyttorak to ask him to remove the enchantment, he basically replied that juggernaut as he was at that point was doing him proud. Seems like there would be no reason for juggs to still be depowered at that point if he had earned back the favor of cyttorak./shrug
It wasn't until Magik pointed out the fact that Cain was also serving another master that Cyttorak got pissed and cut off that portion of his power... But as mentioned: it's hard to imagine Cyttorak withholding power from him beforehand, given how thrilled he was with the havoc Cain was causing. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
I'd be inclined to agree. Cyttorak was VERY happy with Cain/Kuurth initially -- "Marko acts as I would have always wished. He is a hymn to destruction! To my glory!":
http://i.imgur.com/qiewep1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/45fJgvz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Rh3a0QX.jpgIt wasn't until Magik pointed out the fact that Cain was also serving another master that Cyttorak got pissed and cut off that portion of his power... But as mentioned: it's hard to imagine Cyttorak withholding power from him beforehand, given how thrilled he was with the havoc Cain was causing. /shrug
Here it is, it was THIS version that got the Serpent's power :
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/superman-vs-juggs-please-read-op-645956/?page=1#js-message-6728350
Yeah, I figured that's what you were referring to.
While I understand Juggs was depowered initially, I'm just saying that it'd make sense for Cyttorak to stop withholding power from him once he started causing all that destruction... I just don't see Cyttorak keeping a 'model avatar', of whom he was extremely pleased with, depowered.
Not saying your stance is illogical/incorrect in the slightest. The above just makes the most sense to me, is all.
Originally posted by zopzop
I get that, but the version of Juggernaut that was chosen by Serpent was the DEPOWERED one. I wish I had the scan.Here it is, it was THIS version that got the Serpent's power :
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/superman-vs-juggs-please-read-op-645956/?page=1#js-message-6728350
Well not really. Kuurth did have Cytorrak's blessing at first, but then once Cytorrak was brought up to speed, he refused to work as one with the Serpent because he was fooled into the deal via a binding spell. In short, Kuurth only later became nerfed.
I'm assuming that we are using Kuurth when he was at full power? Which would be before Cytorrak learned that Cain had become Apostate. Not sure at this point though.
I get what you're also saying Zop. You think that even though Kuurth had some of Cytorrak's power, he may not have gotten the amount that 8th Day was taking in. I'm inclined to agree. Then it goes back to not being able to answer this question with 100% certainty. They're both over Classic, but when it comes to each other, it's really anyone's guess.
Then again, Kuurth was breaking Piotr's bones when they collided, so we saw Kuurth fight Cytorraks avatar.
Originally posted by StoicIn the raw strength department sure, but the reason I included classic is because of that FF -- it was insanely haxx and could certainly bridge that strength-gap, imo.
They're both over Classic, but when it comes to each other, it's really anyone's guess.
*I know classic has crap showings, but remember: he's at his peak here. So think Thor v1 #411-412, 429. I'd call those showings his peak.
Originally posted by Stoic
They're both over Classic, but when it comes to each other, it's really anyone's guess.
Then again, Kuurth was breaking Piotr's bones when they collided, so we saw Kuurth fight Cytorraks avatar.
We also know that Peter was a complete failure both as Avatar of Cyttorak AND Host of the PF. Yet this failure was manhandling Kuurth and pushing him back over the runes he had cast. Before they reached the starting point, Serpent teleported Kuurth away because the explosion would have resulted in his death. Yet Peter, with NO Force field, was able to survive it.
DP Kuurth never faced off against any being greater than meta. That's a fact. Classic Juggeranut faced off against and withstood Marvel's elite Herald's best attack (Thor's Godblast).
