Evidence of Palpatine's Power Growth: TPM to RotJ.

This is a thread in which to discuss and present evidence for Sidious' power growth from the end of The Phantom Menance (i.e. post-Plagueis death), through to his confrontation with Yoda in Revenge of the Sith to the moments before his death in Return of the Jedi.

It's generally assumed that over the course of this thirty year period, Sidious grew more powerful and knowledgeable in the Force. But what sources/reasoning can be presented to define the extent and nature of this increment? And what gap do you think exists between his incarnations?

Best I can think of is DE stating he grew powerful?

Thats about it. I'm sure there's something...?

[btw I'll respond to your pm in little while<3]

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Best I can think of is DE stating he grew powerful?

Thats about it. I'm sure there's something...?

[btw I'll respond to your pm in little while<3]

I'm curious if there is any source stating that he grew in power between TPM and ROTS other than feats/logical assumptions with his best ever quotes in ROTS.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
[B]TPM to RotJ, Fated. uhuh/B]

Bite me. I don't read descriptions.

:hmph:

Aren't there sources saying he commited an ritual which helped to darken the Galaxy?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Aren't there sources saying he commited an ritual which helped to darken the Galaxy?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Bite me.

Spoiler:
Don't tempt me.

Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.

-- The Complete Visual Dictionary

Thanks 👆

I think it's reasonable to infer that Sidious was constantly growing in power anyway.

Yeah, I mean he drew upon Byss's power and studied a huge amount of lore. I'm pretty sure it's also in the DE respect thread that he grew in power following his first death.

Yep. After RotJ, there's two or three concrete quotes to support him growing stronger.

Between RotS and RotJ, Sidious gained access to the secrets of the Jedi Archives, among that of others (the Blackguard, for instance), so again, it's logical to infer that Sidious was constantly growing in power.

I guess the question is how much he improves. TPM -> DE is probably comparable to season 4-> RotS Anakin, which sounds small given the time-frame, but Sidious is already in his fifties by the beginning of the PT, so he's probably hitting diminishing returns.

He studies far more than Anakin, though, and practices potentially power-increasing rituals as well. Heck, he gained power from RotJ to DE whilst studying in seclusion, despite having almost certainly not gained additional knowledge (perhaps even having lost some) with the fall of the Empire.

And his potential is surpassed by only a select few in the mythos. It wouldn't be diminishing by much, if at all, IMO.

Hmmm, maybe. I get the feeling that Anakin's growth in-between AotC and RotS is close to unprecedented in the mythos, except for maybe ESB -> RotJ Luke.

The TPM/DE gap can't be comically large unless if we think that Luke could like one-shot Plagueis.

I didn't say it was comically large. I mean, he did study for about thirty years up to TPM alone. That's longer than the rest of his lifespan.

On second thought, he probably did hit diminishing returns, but he grew vastly in power, just as Anakin did from TCW to RotS. I'd argue that RotS-DE Sidious is already like TCW-RotS Anakin. TPM-RotS is unclear but we know he was constantly getting stronger.

And I hold Plagueis slightly below Yoda, yet Sidious was canonically more powerful than Yoda by RotS. So it looks to be a noticeable improvement nevertheless.

It's also a question of how much of that growth comes from accessing more of his potential, and how much comes from refining his mastery/expanding his knowledge. Anakin and Luke were doing both during their massive growth spurts.

I would say Sheev's growth spurts were also early in his career, but he studied enough in later years to keep growing at a relatively constant pace.

Yeah, after the initial training gains, his biggest spurts were probably when he and Plagueis unbalanced the Force and hacked their midichlorians, when he got that boost from Plagueis's death, and maybe also from RotJ -> DE.

Sids has access to many archival holocrons and whatnot in the Jedi Temple, its stated in Rise of Vader that Sidious studies these archives and I assume thats how he gains more power through knowledge