Superman Prime vs Kal Kent

Started by Galan0072 pages
Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Decimus
Prime has in his power set the ability to retcon characters he could use this to perturb Solaris (or even Kal) to amp himself or negate the Sun completely (now that I have though a moment more about the simulation). Kal does not have retconning abilities from what I've read and seen.
It is not part of Prime's powerset to retcon characters.

The retcons he caused were an inadvertent/sporadic side-effects of him striking specific dimensional walls from within the Limbo realm -- he literally had no control over what(or who) was affected by his tantrum... But that's neither here nor there. Had he not been in *that* specific place, punching *those* specific dimensional walls, Prime could *not* have caused said retcons.

Anyway, if you want to get technical, S1M did cause very minor retcons when he was punching time, but that doesn't really doesn't matter at all and is WAY off topic.

Dareangel Senior Member

Well Prime cant lose his Guardian amp because if he could that would be kinda a certain win for kal kent who is getting empowered during the whole fight.

Dareangel Senior Member
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Don't give in to Galan, he doesn't know anything....he draws his own scans.

😆 😆 😆

Dareangel Senior Member

by the way here is something that crossed my mind. in hourman 1 million if i am not mistaken, kal kent is beasten by that enetgy ball called else man. the else man can copy their foe powers and become a better version of their opponents. 2 questions. first one were they fighting at the 853 centery and kal kent was empowered by the super sun? because he got wrecked and hurt and wasnt really healing. secondly, the else man seem to turn into the golden superman 1 million when he fought kal kent. kal kent even stated he became his hero or something. was it a copy of golden superman 1 million? it doesnt make much sense that the else man can turn into such powerful beings i mean hourman 1 million took them all down eventually.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Dareangel
2 questions. first one were they fighting at the 853 centery and kal kent was empowered by the super sun? because he got wrecked and hurt and wasnt really healing.
When Kal and the Legion found out about the Else-Men, they 'ported to Rann-Prime to combat them:
http://i.imgur.com/lWLwTlR.jpg

And yes, Rann-Prime was obviously way outside their native solar system, thus way outside the reach of the Super Sun:
http://i.imgur.com/5YbNEfN.jpg

So no, Kal didn't have the opportunity to be recharged by the Sun after he was ragdolled by the Else-Man.

Originally posted by Dareangel
secondly, the else man seem to turn into the golden superman 1 million when he fought kal kent. kal kent even stated he became his hero or something. was it a copy of golden superman 1 million? it doesnt make much sense that the else man can turn into such powerful beings i mean hourman 1 million took them all down eventually.
As you mentioned, the Else-Men were extremely powerful. Their basic powerset was to not only to copy a character's powers, but to expand upon them -- essentially becoming a 'better you':
http://i.imgur.com/3yyDrQ9.jpg

That said, I do not believe the Else-Man became Superman Prime 1M when it encountered Kal. However, it did become a better him:
http://i.imgur.com/fK2eKaL.jpg
"From the yellow sun that beats in my chest, to the powers I possess... I've just become the ultimate you!"

Kal implied this Else-Man had become the being he always imagined himself becoming:
http://i.imgur.com/zdtZtrL.jpg
"When I was a boy! I'd daydream about what I'd be like when I grow up! I'd be him!"

This isn't overly surprising. After all, an Else-Man was able to create an [albeit incomplete] copy of the full Worlogog, from the micro-fraction that Hourman still possessed. Even Metron was utterly shocked by this:
http://i.imgur.com/ZyPeMxm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uQDhjLC.jpg

The only way to defeat the Else-Men was for Hourman to travel to the dawn of their universe, and freeze its big bang forever in time -- essentially preventing the Else-Men from ever existing:
http://i.imgur.com/s4skqtp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2ELHSWe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iPobdxk.jpg

StiltmanFTW CBvF
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Don't give in to Galan, he doesn't know anything....he draws his own scans.

👆

He later enhances the images in photoshop, so they won't look like complete shit.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

At least it has taken you plebs over a decade to figure out how I roll...

....F*ck, that gif makes me dizzy. 😘

Dareangel Senior Member

Thanks for the the explanation galan. the else man are sure powerful as hell. i hated that fight because kal was too EMO and the only one who didnt even try to fight his counterpart. but oh well.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

^ Kal didn't try to fight back because he and Hourman were telepathically devising a plan to temporarily incapacitate the Else-Men long enough to escape:
http://i.imgur.com/w7Agdwy.jpg

Staying there and trying to battle the Else-Men would have been futile. They simply could not have won.

Don Draper Old Fashioned

Prime wins.

i've never viewed superman one million as more powerful than normal superman. he's all hype. srsly

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Either you're trolling, or you simply don't know anything much about the character. S1M was a LOT more powerful than mainstream Supes:

How was he so powerful? Because at the turn of the 700th century, Superman Prime 1M returned to earth and endowed the Superman Dynasty with "powers FAR beyond ANY held by ANY metahuman EVER... Powers gleaned from the very edge of time and space"(in DC, the edge of time/space = the Source):
http://i.imgur.com/J3OxnKv.jpg

That's why, even in a significantly depowered state, S1M was still able to one-shot mid(arguably high)-heralds... With his breath alone:
http://i.imgur.com/Gll14k4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/etdRfUh.jpg

Dareangel Senior Member

Kal kent even while depowered has better feats than average sups. what can confuse some to think he is not powerful is his character. he is not the guy to do much fighting and he always try to find the smarter way to deal with obstacles. unlike Prime he isnt looking for fights. thats the reason i always wanted to see a story with kal kent cuts loose or for some reason becomes evil for a short period of time for a nice stroy. while greatly depowered the metal man crew jumped him. they were getting a hold of him and is seemed like he is done. however once he realized he has no time to spare and he got to save the world blah blah blah, he destroys them easily even after they all combined themselves into a huge creture. and even then after the fight he says he is sorry that he had to do it. as i said already, he is probably the most boyscout superman out there and does his best to avoid hurting his foes.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

You can't blame Kal for not getting excitable when a new threat pops-up.

In his native timeline, he literally makes appointments for would-be conquerors. After giving them a tour of his solar system, said conquerors practically shit their pants and retreat:
http://i.imgur.com/u6KBKY2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oVg8EYN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5fslbjg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u7xenJP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LSDlNmg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mSWQ3jI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8FR8a2I.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ue6aCOH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/I5z72r0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xk8SAez.jpg

...And S1M gives these 'tours' several times a day, lol.

quanchi112 Disney

😂

Decimus Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
It is not part of Prime's powerset to retcon characters.

The retcons he caused were an inadvertent/sporadic side-effects of him striking specific dimensional walls from within the Limbo realm -- he literally had no control over what(or who) was affected by his tantrum... But that's neither here nor there. Had he not been in *that* specific place, punching *those* specific dimensional walls, Prime could *not* have caused said retcons.

Anyway, if you want to get technical, S1M did cause very minor retcons when he was punching time, but that doesn't really doesn't matter at all and is WAY off topic.


After looking back at the entire run including numerous tie-ins the extra dimensions were needed for the retcons which were not under Prime's control. Looking at the scenario further I still can see no problem with the general consistency and methodology (minus the ability to retcon at will since both characters have retconned with stipulations)of my argument however that the other feats still put considerably more evidence into the camp of supporting Prime out manuevering SM1(both bloodlusted no CIS). What is stopping Prime from destroying Solaris faster than SM1 can react. Even Wally or any individual flash alone wasn't fast enough to combat Prime's pre-crisis speed which some how exists outside or in tandem to the speed force (which prime also escaped btw under his own abilities). SBP was so OP that he was left with a nose bleed and blood from the corner of his mouth after taking blows from Bart with the ENTIRE SF absorbed into him and Prime still went on to destroy the universe unfazed because his pre-crisis powers were so above and beyond anything on the field of play. Basically you would have to point to or show various speed feats not to mention strength and durability that match or exceed the feats (all of Primes) and then show how it isn't all rampant speculation against on panel feats which are to be clear the equivalent to physically recorded evidence information-facts. I can show given the parameters I will put forth an isomorphism for the Silver Surfer vs Dr Manhattan battle. One has feats (SS)and the other has a few feats against high street levelers and various untestable statements we have to take on honest in stead of anything objective. Until DrM comes and shows his abilities in Rebirth directly it becomes intractable that DrM can replicate and exceed all showings SS has shown so far but the same cannot be said for SS. Once DrM shows his capabilities in relation to others truly versatile and powerful then we can say with we have a metric and can deduce something approaching multiple sigmas based on the feats given that DrM is significantly more likely to win (probabilistically)the majority of battles over SS or it most likely becomes a no limits fallacy or some other bias. That being said if SM1 developed powers that negated or out does Prime's powers faster than Prime can react he would win decisively it's possible just improbable. Interesting battle though (Hopefully this is not DR TL or verbose for you guys) 👆