Franklin Richards and the Mad Celestials invade the Dragon Ball Multiverse

Originally posted by Galan007
Nope. Reed is the only one who received Owen's power -- Franklin did all that under his own power. 👆

It's simple: Franklin created each universe ex nihilo, and Reed sent/hurled each universe to its own designated reality -- essentially 'layering' the multiverse(all of these universes that Franklin created obviously couldn't occupy the same space, after all.)

Interdooski.

So would you say Owen's power is still a level above Franklin's?

Does DBS have any answer to reality warping?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Interdooski.

So would you say Owen's power is still a level above Franklin's?

Absolutely.

And read the scans, particularly the one Galan mentions (The mid one).

Galan's argument seems to be that Franklin does all the work of creating full scale universes, using his own power, while all Reed does is "ship" them. Like a messenger service.

That doesn't seem right to me, especially with the emphesis on Reed possessing "all that power". Imo, a better explanation is Franklin is the modeler, rendering each universe at less then scale (We can see the effect in his hands, as a bubble), while Reed does the process of turning them into a piece of the multiverse.

But it really is a hard to follow explanation given in those scans any way you slice it.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Interdooski.

So would you say Owen's power is still a level above Franklin's?

Franklin is somewhere between well-fed Galactus and Eternity, on average. By all implications, Owen still has the power of the entire Beyonder race, and is THE most powerful being in Marvel by a HUGE margin.

The only beings who might be able to rival him are the other races who reside within the Beyond Realm(there are evidently quite a few)... But since their powers are entirely unexplored at this point, Owen still sits comfortably at the top of the hierarchy.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Does DBS have any answer to reality warping?

Sheer power.

Pure power in End of Z has overcome or caused the following:

Matter Transmutation (Boo vs Vegetto)
Dimension Displacement (Hit vs Jiren)
Time Manipulation (Hit vs Jiren)
Being in a black hole (Goku/Androids vs U2)
Space tearing/space bending (Boo vs Vegetto, Aniraza)
Telepathy/illusions (U7 vs U4)
Absolute Zero freezing (Vegeta vs U9)

Point being, in DB, you bigger your number, the more likely you are capable of defending against and resisting haxx. Their foes would have to be more powerful than them in terms of pure power to be able to truly destroy them with haxx, as far as I'm concerned.

But as Galan pointed out, Franklin absolutely seems to have more pure power.

Originally posted by Galan007
Most definitely.

Franklin is somewhere between well-fed Galactus and Eternity, on average. By all implications, Owen still has the power of the entire Beyonder race, and is THE most powerful being in Marvel by a HUGE margin.

The only beings who might be able to rival him are the other races who reside within the Beyond Realm(there are evidently quite a few)... But since their powers are entirely unexplored at this point, Owen still sits comfortably at the top of the hierarchy.

Do you think any of the "greater than Hakaishin" powers in DBS would be able to defeat Franklin?

Eh if you ignore PIS and CIS even the Celestials could clone Goku or Beerus/Whis/etc. and then train them in some pocket universe or something, lmao.

Originally posted by cdtm
Galan's argument seems to be that Franklin does all the work of creating full scale universes, using his own power, while all Reed does is "ship" them. Like a messenger service.

Franklin created the universes, and then handed each one off to Reed, who sent them where they needed to go(thereby layering/structuring the new multiverse.) That's why Val calls Franklin a "universal SHAPER" when she is describing the event(s) to Sue -- that's why we see Reed literally THROWING Franklin's universes off into the distance.

There is certainly a metatextual overtone to the scene, but after you read it(along with the rest of Hickman's F4 tie-ins to Secret Wars) a few times, it becomes quite clear what is going on there. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
That's exactly what is happening.

Franklin created the universes, and then handed each one off to Reed, who sent them where they needed to go(thereby layering and restructuring the new multiverse)... That's why Val literally calls Franklin a "universal SHAPER" -- that's why we literally see Reed THROWING Franklin's universes off into the distance.

There is certainly a metatextual overtone to the scene, but after you read it(along with the rest of Hickman's F4 tie-ins to Secret Wars), it becomes quite clear what is going on there. 👆

But Franklin wore himself out creating "one" universe, didn't he?

If Franklin is that powerful, it makes you wonder why he "needs" "all that power" just to ship it.

But the words do leave themselves open to interpretation.. Say, a computer modeler/artist creates the nuts and bolts of a cgi scene, and the scene is created on more powerful hardware later. Which is what they DO in big budget cgi world building. Given the target audience includes a good many computer programmers, I could see this being the intent behind this convoluted scene.

And from a plot standpoint, it puts more emphasis on Reeds end then "Special delivery!" Not so impressive, from that point of view.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Do you think any of the "greater than Hakaishin" powers in DBS would be able to defeat Franklin?

Whis, for example, is powerful enough to one-shot Beerus(who is ~universal) with a casual chop, he can reverse time, he can create matter ex nihilo to an extent(we do not yet know the full depths of this ability), etc. etc. Hell, the very fact that Guide Angels can KO Hakaishin so casually suggests they can KO Franklin as well(given the chance, of course.) Flip side, I have no doubt that Franklin could also warp the Angels... So it'd be a quickdraw scenario, imo: whomever acts first, wins.

Then you have Daishinkan, who is FAR beyond ALL of the Guide Angels. ie. if a Guide Angel can beat Franklin, Daishinkan can beat him much easier.

Finally there's Zen-Oh, who could undoubtedly *squish* Franklin, given the chance(the dude is like a sentient Ultimate Nullifier, lol.)

Originally posted by cdtm
But Franklin wore himself out creating "one" universe, didn't he?

Originally posted by cdtm
If Franklin is that powerful, it makes you wonder why he "needs" "all that power" just to ship it.

Originally posted by cdtm
And from a plot standpoint, it puts more emphasis on Reeds end then "Special delivery!" Not so impressive, from that point of view.

Originally posted by Galan007
Most definitely.

Franklin is somewhere between well-fed Galactus and Eternity, on average. By all implications, Owen still has the power of the entire Beyonder race, and is THE most powerful being in Marvel by a HUGE margin.

The only beings who might be able to rival him are the other races who reside within the Beyond Realm(there are evidently quite a few)... But since their powers are entirely unexplored at this point, Owen still sits comfortably at the top of the hierarchy.

Owen doesn't have that power for his personal use. He is just storing it like a battery so it doesn't make any differences about his personal power-level.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Sheer power.

Pure power in End of Z has overcome or caused the following:

Matter Transmutation (Boo vs Vegetto)
Dimension Displacement (Hit vs Jiren)
Time Manipulation (Hit vs Jiren)
Being in a black hole (Goku/Androids vs U2)
Space tearing/space bending (Boo vs Vegetto, Aniraza)
Telepathy/illusions (U7 vs U4)
Absolute Zero freezing (Vegeta vs U9)

Point being, in DB, you bigger your number, the more likely you are capable of defending against and resisting haxx. Their foes would have to be more powerful than them in terms of pure power to be able to truly destroy them with haxx, as far as I'm concerned.

But as Galan pointed out, Franklin absolutely seems to have more pure power.

You are mistaking a limitation of the powers in DB as they can be countered bu sheee power, for a general rule.

Reality warping doesn't care if the characters are powerful or not.

DB characters cannot counter it by sheer power.

Originally posted by Galan007
Franklin has been adept at universal creation ever since the 'training sessions' with his adult counterpart in Hickman's F4 run... It was all in preparation for his final showing in SW.

Franklin was powerful enough to shape/create all the universes, but wasn't able(or at least didn't know how) to precisely place each universe into it's own designated reality within the new multiverse... That's where Reed came in.

Franklin and Reed were both emphasized to the same degree in that scene. Franklin created the universes. Reed sent each one to its own designated reality, thereby layering/structuring the new multiverse. Again, we literally see him THROW Franklin's universes off into the distance. /shrug

Young miss Richards also uses the term "ideas", and says he gives Richards the "ideas".

Again, the same way a modeled gives a renderer the idea, that gets built off of (Those universes then being shipped as the skeleton, which Reed "spins off" by building on it.)

I'll admit my interpretation is a lot weaker then yours based on what we see happening in the scene, though.

At face value, I more "hope" that was a mistake of storytelling, because Franklin being the multiverse builder is kind of out of nowhere. The whole saga was about the awesome power of the Beyonders, and logically you'd think the main engine for the solution would BE the Beyonders power.. and then here we have Franklin out of left field, fixing everything.

Reeds role could have been taken by any other experienced lower tier multiversal reality warper then. Nothing special about what he's doing, just get someone with the power and experience to ship those universes out (Of which Marvel has many.. It's a circus of multiversal reality warping freaks.)

In DB power/raw ki > any kind of hax be it reality warping, magic, time manipulation, or mind ****ery. Pretty sure Beerus handles

Franklin simply waves his hand, and Zenos and all of Dragon Ball are erased from existence

Uh, no.

Anyways, I'd definitely give this to the DB multiverse. If the DB cast has basic knowledge of the Marvel cast, Jiren will literally just kill him outright. Or Vegeta. Or Frieza. Or any of the other characters in DB that would be willing to kill him without giving him a chance to fight, while also having the ability to do so. Hit would be a prime example.

Put Hit up against Franklin, and Hit one-shots, tbh. Then someone like Goku or Vegeta could put down the Celestials. They're just so far above them at this point, I couldn't see the Celestials being able to do anything to them.

Originally posted by RadZoa
Franklin simply waves his hand, and Zenos and all of Dragon Ball are erased from existence

Zeno is the only one with remotely a chance against him and even then I doubt that he can beat Franklin.

Beerus solos.

mui goku solos, jiren solos, whis solos, zeno solos, the list goes on

Remembr that Dragon Ball universes are only the size of planets/solar systems so of course Franklin would simply wave his hand and DB would gone from existence