AOTC Anakin vs TPM Maul

Please, let's not try and bring recklessness into the discussion when this is the thread feature. The first post in here was the most reasonable one. This is a decent fight regardless of context. With it, it's not certain what the cap to Anakin's abilities are while enraged. It's the phycological path to his 'chosen one' reserves making unimaginable feats possible. ESB Luke has trouble lifting x-wings normally, but while enraged, can nudge entire Star Destroyers. As for Maul crushing...? This incarnate struggles with random nightsisers, having to rely on weaponry advantages to make headway in a duel. Let alone curb-stomping Ventress on a DS nexus. Maul dies.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul crushes him.

I mean Anakin's performance against Dooku was a rage amp considering Kenobi was about to be gutted in front of him.

Originally posted by Kurk
I mean Anakin's performance against Dooku was a rage amp considering Kenobi was about to be gutted in front of him.

I mean, no it isn't really. Saving one's master from death is not the same as witnessing their fatality. Unless we're being extremely generous in counting the first manoeuvre Anakin made to stop Kenobi from being gutted, you might have a barely nuanced point. That's a small, yet unlikely possibility. Given that Anakin intercepted Dooku from several meters away before the latter could finish his cut, he should do just fine against the person who let's padawans leap some height above before bisecting him.

Originally posted by twotter
I mean, no it isn't really. Saving one's master from death is not the same as witnessing their fatality. Unless we're being extremely generous in counting the first manoeuvre Anakin made to stop Kenobi from being gutted, you might have a barely nuanced point. That's a small, yet unlikely possibility. Given that Anakin intercepted Dooku from several meters away before the latter could finish his cut, he should do just fine against the person who let's padawans leap some height above before bisecting him.

Originally posted by Kurk
Amps vary in magnitude of course Kenobi being killed would affect him more, but in RotS Anakin arguably gains an amp against Dooku after he floors Kenobi. In both movies he's put on his ass by Dooku, only to rejoin the fight with a flying, battle-cry leap when Kenobi goes down. You don't believe them to be amps?

They do vary in magnitude, yes. And if you accept that rule, then you'll agree they can also be constrained by time. In which a jedi can find it in himself the power beyond his normal capacity when the situation calls. This can be seen when Starkiller obliterates a frigate before it crash lands on the platform his loved one is standing on. However, that moment would start, and promptly end, when saved her. The same could possibly be said for Anakin once he intercepted Dooku, if at all. But there would be no reason for Anakin to sustain some elevated state after the fact. Nothing indicates he was enraged throughout the fight either. Which is not really surprising. It's made clear that Obi Wan was not dying from two cauterised blade wounds while on the floor, still conscious, having interacted with Anakin during the fight. So he has no reason to be particularly enraged.

Originally posted by twotter

Please, let's not try and bring recklessness into the discussion when this is the thread feature. The first post in here was the most reasonable one. This is a decent fight regardless of context. With it, it's not certain what the cap to Anakin's abilities are while enraged. It's the phycological path to his 'chosen one' reserves making unimaginable feats possible. ESB Luke has trouble lifting x-wings normally, but while enraged, can nudge entire Star Destroyers.

Originally posted by twotter
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As for Maul crushing...? This incarnate struggles with random nightsisers, having to rely on weaponry advantages to make headway in a duel. Let alone curb-stomping Ventress on a DS nexus. Maul dies.

Originally posted by twotter

Please, let's not try and bring recklessness into the discussion when this is the thread feature. The first post in here was the most reasonable one. This is a decent fight regardless of context. With it, it's not certain what the cap to Anakin's abilities are while enraged. It's the phycological path to his 'chosen one' reserves making unimaginable feats possible. ESB Luke has trouble lifting x-wings normally, but while enraged, can nudge entire Star Destroyers. As for Maul crushing...? This incarnate struggles with random nightsisers, having to rely on weaponry advantages to make headway in a duel. Let alone curb-stomping Ventress on a DS nexus. Maul dies.

Too much mixing up of Canon and Legends in your post with a pretty unsubstantiated conclusion, and an "argument" which begins with a clip of Maul getting hit by a surprise attack.

Luke shaking Star destroyers pre ESB is in the NuCanon (unless I missed something big in Legends). Anakin destroying Ventress on a DS nexus was Legends. Incidentally Luke's feat while impressive was clearly not a controlled one. And Anakin's enraged feat against Ventress obviously would have also capitalised on the same DS nexus she was benefitting from.

So Despite your arguments being all over continuity and relying too heavily on "chosen one" reserved, you've not actually made a proper case for your conclusion of "Maul dies".

This pre-Knight incarnation of Anakin attacked Dooku in a fit of rage and as a result got KO'd swiftly. So I honestly don't see him do much better against Dooku's predecessor.

Now sure Anakin would give him a decent challenge in Sabers (as he did Dooku), but his chances of actually winning are slim at this point in time, especially in an uncontrolled and enraged mindset.

Originally posted by Darth Thor

This pre-Knight incarnation of Anakin attacked Dooku in a fit of rage and as a result got KO'd swiftly. So I honestly don't see him do much better against Dooku's predecessor.

Originally posted by twotter
They do vary in magnitude, yes. And if you accept that rule, then you'll agree they can also be constrained by time. In which a jedi can find it in himself the power beyond his normal capacity when the situation calls. This can be seen when Starkiller obliterates a frigate before it crash lands on the platform his loved one is standing on. However, that moment would start, and promptly end, when saved her. The same could possibly be said for Anakin once he intercepted Dooku, if at all. But there would be no reason for Anakin to sustain some elevated state after the fact. Nothing indicates he was enraged throughout the fight either. Which is not really surprising. It's made clear that Obi Wan was not dying from two cauterised blade wounds while on the floor, still conscious, having interacted with Anakin during the fight. So he has no reason to be particularly enraged.

But yes, that amp will only last for so long.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
He got KO'd by force lightning, an ability Maul has never used, and hence isn't something he'll be using here.

An ability he can be easily defend against, except his rage stare clearly made him easy prey. So yes relevant. Perhaps Maul would just Force slam him, the way he ended the fight with Obi-Wan in "Revival".

Originally posted by Kurk
He didn't need to necessarily be enraged after intercepting Dooku.

So in other words, there was no unspoken of amp influencing Anakin during the fight. I agree.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Too much mixing up of Canon and Legends in your post with a pretty unsubstantiated conclusion,

Luke shaking Star destroyers pre ESB is in the NuCanon (unless I missed something big in Legends). Anakin destroying Ventress on a DS nexus was Legends. Incidentally Luke's feat while impressive was clearly not a controlled one.

I'm pretty sure Legends accounts for all content... including canon. Regardless, the concept is still the same. The kind of induced rage when witnessing a loved one murdered is enough to move someone up a tier or two. Gillard has explained this concept. It allowed TPM! Kenobi to match Maul for some time when his presence was little more than an annoyance in the early fight. What will said amplifier do for someone who already genuinely challenges Dooku under normal circumstances?

And Anakin's enraged feat against Ventress obviously would have also capitalised on the same DS nexus she was benefitting from.

So, when enraged, he curbstomped her on even ground? Good. You wanna find me similar fights with Maul posing the same threat between Anoon Bondera, random nightsisters and an out of Prime Qui Gon? Please remember the stipulations for this thread : Anakin having watched Maul kill Obi Wan. Such a heavy development hadn't occurred against Ventress. Ergo; he's going to be even stronger here.

argumentsents being all over continuity and relying too heavily on "chosen one" reserved. you've not actually made a proper case for your conclusion of "Maul dies".

The "chosen one" trope might be null without the circumstances. With them, we have a funnel to untapped potential. And when that potential is roughly around Twice of Sidious, the guy who fondles Maul on any given Sunday, then yeah, Maul is gonna have a problem. You might even say that Maul dies.

This pre-Knight incarnation of Anakin attacked Dooku in a fit of rage and as a result got KO'd swiftly. So I honestly don't see him do much better against Dooku's predecessor.

This is barely even worthy of a response. It's such a feeble point that you must have regretted it after typing, but hit the submit button anyway to flesh out an already poor reply. So I'll counter it with an argument with equally poor substratum. Maul was cut in half by Obi Wan in a fit of stupidity. So I honestly don't see him doing much better against Kenobi's successor. This is an already a better argument given that Anakin is much stronger than TPM! Kenobi (and is even better than him during ATOC) and Dooku is both more skilled and powerful than the version of Maul being discussed.

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Originally posted by twotter
Maul get's crushed. Anakin could probably Force choke him given that the latter hasn't shown any reliable Force defence. Passive barriers won't cut it here. A saber battle would look a little something like this :

With exception that Maul wouldn't cede ground quite as quickly.

👆

Maul, comfortably

Originally posted by twotter

I'm pretty sure Legends accounts for all content... including canon.

Not the post Disney stuff. Except perhaps the stories which finished off TCW series, given TCW series was very sloppily and forcefully melded into Legends.

Originally posted by twotter
Regardless, the concept is still the same. The kind of induced rage when witnessing a loved one murdered is enough to move someone up a tier or two. Gillard has explained this concept. It allowed TPM! Kenobi to match Maul for some time when his presence was little more than an annoyance in the early fight. What will said amplifier do for someone who already genuinely challenges Dooku under normal circumstances?

Well it needs to be a focused rage. Anakin as of AOTC we've seen isn't very focused and can get quite sloppy in a fit of rage.

Originally posted by twotter
So, when enraged, he curbstomped her on even ground? Good. You wanna find me similar fights with Maul posing the same threat between Anoon Bondera, random nightsisters and an out of Prime Qui Gon? Please remember the stipulations for this thread : Anakin having watched Maul kill Obi Wan. Such a heavy development hadn't occurred against Ventress. Ergo; he's going to be even stronger here.

Given that was Anakin after AOTC, and that Maul > Ventress anyway, your whole argument really hasn't proven anything, given I never claimed Maul would "stomp".

Given Maul beat all those opponents you're using to lowball him, you're going to have to lowball better than that.

Originally posted by twotter
The "chosen one" trope might be null without the circumstances. With them, we have a funnel to untapped potential. And when that potential is roughly around Twice of Sidious, the guy who fondles Maul on any given Sunday, then yeah, Maul is gonna have a problem. You might even say that Maul dies.

LOL You'd have a hard enough task arguing an enraged ROTS Anakin would have twice the power of Sidious. Arguing "chosen one" potential for AOTC Anakin is a pretty desperate case to make, given he never once displayed that kind of raw power. And even IF (and it is a big speculative IF), it ever did come out, it would almost certainly be unfocused and uncontrolled by him. And likely just make him more sloppy.

Originally posted by twotter
This is barely even worthy of a response. It's such a feeble point that you must have regretted it after typing, but hit the submit button anyway to flesh out an already poor reply. So I'll counter it with an argument with equally poor substratum. Maul was cut in half by Obi Wan in a fit of stupidity. So I honestly don't see him doing much better against Kenobi's successor. This is an already a better argument given that Anakin is much stronger than TPM! Kenobi (and is even better than him during ATOC) and Dooku is both more skilled and powerful than the version of Maul being discussed.

Oh it definitely is worth a response. Problem is you just don't have a very good response to it.

You claimed the kind of rage at him seeing Kenobi die would just guaranteed make him all Uber with double the power of Sidious just coming out of nowhere.

Yet the very incarnation we're talking about thought frigging Padme, the love of his life, might be dead because of Dooku. And what did that rage do for him? Got him taken out pretty damn quickly.

Again, if we see a case of how Anakin trounced Dooku in ROTS, it was firstly with years more experience, and secondly it was clearly a pretty focused an controlled rage.

But there's actually multiple examples of just random rage not helping combatants much (which I can start pointing out if you like), and given we've seen this incarnation of Anakin in a fit of rage loosing pretty damn quickly when up against an actual Sith Lord, instead of some novice dark side apprentice to a Sith, you'll have to make a much better case. Preferably one with less speculation, and better logic involved.

Originally posted by Big Gerald
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