Post Nathema Revan vs. Valkorion

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lmfao, we have Palpatine sending a wave of Force lightning into Kota's back, meaning again there was no barrier, and yet Kota wasn't incinerated. This is probably because Palpatine wouldn't instantly kill someone like Kota, he would torture him first (refer to Palpatine's torture of the Death Star designer). It's no surprise then that when Marek steps between the lightning, he's likewise not incinerated. Note that Palpatine probably never expected Marek to move in front of the lightning, hence why Marek could make a messily step forward. It would be foolish to try to ramp out the lightning from 0 to a 100 when Marek is only a foot away from him anyway, by the way.

We know he had back against Kota since Kota wasn't incinerated (noting that Kota didn't use a barrier either. The text states it hit his back and that he was completely caught off-guard). And note all three sources have numerous differences on numerous fronts. This being one of them isn't a surprise. However, your questions aren't relevant, since the text states it hit Marek's body, not his barrier or power.

His back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HblR0sMoh3s, 16:04.

"The apprentice noted, as though viewing the world in slow motion, the Jedi Master telekinetically snatching the Emperor's lightsaber from his waist and, with a surety belying his physical blindness, using it to cut down the Imperial Guards watching the prisoners. Lunging forward, he struck next at the Emperor, who stood, apparently unarmed, with one hand still reaching out for the apprentice.

But the Emperor was never unarmed. Raising his other hand, he blasted Kota with lightning before the blow came close to falling. Sith energy crackled between them and the Jedi Master fell back, caught in the Emperor's deadly grip."

I'm sorry but, which version are you referring to here? Because, as far as I'm aware. Neither the game, the novel or the comic depict events as you're suggesting.

He's going to do this to someone who is intent on ruining his plans of turning Galen to the Darkside and making him his new apprentice when Galen is standing nearby?

First off, Galen was more then a foot away. If you look at the distance pictured in both the comic and game he's at least several meters away. Secondly, he didn't have any trouble ramping up his lightning enough to overwhelm Yoda despite them literally being on opposing sides of a senate pod. So I don't see why he'd have any trouble here against someone you believe to be far weaker and far easier to overwhelm.

You're wrong Ant. I just posted the scene in question and nowhere does it say Sidious hit him in his back. I also provided the other versions which corroborate it just for shits and giggles. Enjoy. And simply because the text doesn't note something doesn't mean that it didn't occur. I already explained this above. This leaves us with two possibilities. That Sidious would not opt to simply end Kota then and there with a concentrated blast of force lightning and remove him as a threat to his plans but rather torture him in front of Galen. Or that Kota managed to shield himself for a brief period from the full power of Sidious's lightning. I find the latter scenario more likely. Again, simply because some of Sidious's energy got through or Galen didn't fully diminish the power of the lightning ( similar to Revan with Vitiate ) doesn't mean he wasn't blocking it. The only way your stance makes any sense is if you adopt the position that Sidious wasn't attempting to kill Kota and then let Galen walk up to him and grab his shoulders which makes absolutely no sense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh shit, is Galen getting nerfed? Niiiiice.

Nah, Ant's just feeling frisky but he's being put back in his place.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You do recognize the difference between Marek/Palpatine and most other lightning stunts? Marek was literally holding onto Palpatine, meaning that the lightning was hurting Palpatine as much as it was Marek. Ramping up the lightning to ashing levels would have likewise left Palpatine ashed. You can't initiate a Force barrier after the power already began.

Palpatine tanked the suicide blast because Marek dropped his defenses (i.e. his grip on Palpatine). Thus, when Marek unleashed his power outward, Palpatine could form a Force barrier to defend himself.

He's referring to your answer to my question of why he simply didn't amp his lightning while Galen was walking towards him to which you responded

"Note that Palpatine probably never expected Marek to move in front of the lightning, hence why Marek could make a messily step forward. It would be foolish to try to ramp out the lightning from 0 to a 100 when Marek is only a foot away from him anyway, by the way."

Unless this was in response to something else and you just failed to respond to that question. If that's the case I'd ask that you quit ignoring certain section of my argument you are unable to answer.

Originally posted by Emperordmb

Ngl that got a chuckle out of me. 😛

Theres an edit button.....

Ye.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Show me how the neutralization of the circumstances would've made them equal.

2: Revan had just been drugged and tortured for 3 years straight by Scourge. While the drugs were likely not a factor (Revan probably purged them from his system) the torture and other physical problems (he likely suffered from a t least minor malnutrition and atrophy from a lack of being able to do anything.) So Revan was not at all in peak physical shape when he fought Vitiate either.

3:Now, to the fight itself. Revan knocks Vitiate on his ass twice, once with his "Force in Balance" attack and the other by deflecting lightning back at Vitiate. So, Vitiate gets angry and does his hiss, releasing a full powered blast of lightning at Revan. Revan absorbs the large majority of it, causing the lightning to go from "infinitely more powerful" than lightning capable of incinerating people, to being capable of giving Revan 2nd degree burns. That requires A LOT of power, and the math provided by Ant shows just how much of that lightning was absorbed. The fact that Revan did this while on a dark side nexus is astounding, suggesting just how powerful Revan is even off a nexus. Powerful enough that he was able to negate most of it and take the rest of it without dying.

So, it stands to reason that off a nexus Revan would have been able to defeat Vitiate in this fight. And based on all the factors arrayed against Revan, it's easy to see that Revan and Vitiate were pretty closely matched.

DD, why the hell are you merging different versions? The novel states, "sending another wave of Sith lightning into Kota's back."

So yeah, fix your post to one continuity, and then I'll get back to you. I won't shift through the BS otherwise.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Novel always comes first in my mind.

Anyway, I recommend making your post with the video-game, since that's the primary source.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
DD, why the hell are you merging different versions? The novel states, "sending another wave of Sith lightning into Kota's back."

So yeah, fix your post to one continuity, and then I'll get back to you. I won't shift through the BS otherwise.

I'm simply showing you the different versions which support my point. The text I provided was the first time Sidious electrocuted Rahm in which he was trying to kill him but Galen stops him by throwing a hail of debris at him. The one you're mentioning is after Rahm has been electrocuted. Regardless, none of that that would prevent him from shielding himself from Sidious's second attack.

I don't care what you do. Respond to it or don't. Just know that when you make claims that are blatantly false I'll be there to address them and put you back in your place.

But you said earlier you take the novel as the main version. Which version do you want to debate? You can't pick the best versions of each.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And yet you don't use the novel when you don't like it, like with the back instance.

Anyway, I recommend making your post with the video-game, since that's the primary source.

I always take into account the novel. I take into account the other sources as well though when the issues are unclear and where they don't contradict the events that occur in the novel.

The video game is the first source that is contradicted by multiple other game versions.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
But you said earlier you take the novel as the main version. Which version do you want to debate? You can't pick the best versions of each.

The novel comes before all else. The game and comic are supplementary material where they do not contradict the novel.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The novel comes before all else. The game and comic are supplementary material where they do not contradict the novel.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So yeah, fix your post to one continuity, and then I'll get back to you. I won't shift through the BS otherwise.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well, ignoring the fact that's not true, why cite the game and comic then?

With the comic and novel you're correct as it's more a matter of which you favor personally. I just take the novel then because it's a descriptive source that leaves less room for incorrect interpretations. For the games that's the stance you have to take given the many contradictions within its different versions.

Because they're supplementary material where they don't contradict as I explained above. The comic is actually probably equal material where it contradicts and is up to which version you favor more which is why I always give Wolf the option to pick the comic or novel version where he debates Shaak Ti with me.

Except the novel states Kota got hit in the back, but then you cited the comic and the game to prove he didn't. And then you state the comic and the game can only be used when they don't contradict the novel. Lmfao. 😂

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
👆

I've already explained it. If you don't understand it that's your problem.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except the novel states Kota got hit in the back, but then you cited the comic and the game to prove he didn't. And then you state the comic and the game can only be used when they don't contradict the novel. Lmfao. 😂

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except the novel states Kota got hit in the back, but then you cited the comic and the game to prove he didn't. And then you state the comic and the game can only be used when they don't contradict the novel. Lmfao. 😂

He didn't get hit in the back in the first instance. Sidious attempted to kill Rahm with lightning twice in the novel and I thought you were referring to the first instance.

"No!" Kota's voice came as though from a great distance. The apprentice noted, as though viewing the world in slow motion, the Jedi Master telekinetically snatching the Emperor's lightsaber from his waist and, with a surety belying his physical blindness, using it to cut down the Imperial Guards watching the prisoners. Lunging forward, he struck next at the Emperor, who stood, apparently unarmed, with one hand still reaching out for the apprentice.

But the Emperor was never unarmed. Raising his other hand, he blasted Kota with lightning before the blow came close to falling. Sith energy crackled between them and the Jedi Master fell back, caught in the Emperor's deadly grip.

"Help him!"

Bail Organa's voice snapped the apprentice out of his trance. He shook his head, feeling the Emperor's influence sliding off him like oil. What had he been thinking? He didn't want to return to the dark side after everything he had been through. He had seen what it did, in Maris Brood, on Felucia, and in the eyes of Darth Vader. He didn't even want to kill his Master, now that he saw him humbled and at his mercy. That was where it had all started, he now realized. When Darth Vader had killed Galen's father and Galen had snatched the lightsaber from his hand, his intention had been solely to avenge his father's death. That had been what Vader had seen in him all those years ago, not just that he was strong with the Force-and that was why Galen had blotted out the person he had once been. He had taken that first step down the path of the dark side all on his own, before he had been subjected to Vader's cruel tutelage. He had to retract it now or submit to the dark side forever.

Murdering Darth Vader would accomplish nothing. Saving his friends might change the course of history.

Seen in that light, the decision was surprisingly easy.

A hail of shattered transparisteel and debris drove the Emperor back from Kota, breaking his concentration and freeing the Jedi Master from the fatal web of energy. Smoking and weak, Kota fell away and was caught by Garm Bel Iblis. The apprentice tossed them the comlink and advanced on Palpatine." - The Force Unleashed.

Skip.

Kota limped up behind him and put a hand on his shoulder. "That's it, boy," he said with rough pride. "He's beaten. Let it go." - The Force Unleashed.

Skip

"You fool!" snarled the Emperor, sending another wave of Sith lightning into Kota's back. "He will never be yours."

Kota fell with his arms upraised, and the apprentice knew that it wasn't over yet. The moment of truth had arrived." - The Force Unleashed.