Actually, I found Temp's closing argument more convincing.
On the other hand, there are innumerable ways in which Nihilus could have gone about destroying Citadel Station. But the fact is Visas is just basing her claim over what she (and we) have already witnessed.
Or in other words she is offering no knew information on his capabilities.
Originally posted by SunRazer
You'd be right if these were delusional thoughts. But Sidious was stopping himself from doing it. He obviously could.
Dooku was "stopping" himself from killing Anakin as well. People exaggerate themselves in their heads all the time, even in the case where they're supposedly holding themselves back from something. That he thought he could do it doesn't change anything about what I said.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Random PT Jedi can bench press Star Destroyers 😆
Your ravings please me. I've broken you. 🙂
Originally posted by SunRazer
And yet you're willing to take Colonel Tobin's statements at face value. Perhaps you'd like to discuss the double standards here next?
Tobin's statements are supported by the loading screen. Plus he's discussing things that have actually happened instead of the imaginings of a maniac with a god complex.
Originally posted by SunRazer
You didn't close a case because you put up a bunch of unsupported hypotheses.
The TK argument is just as unsupported. The basis of the argument is that the only explanation for the quote is that he must have used TK. To refute this argument all I need to do is introduce alternatives, and therefore make it impossible to determine what he did or did not do. Therefore your argument becomes invalid. I've won. Case the **** closed.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Concession to what? I'm playing both feats and accolades since both are in favor of Palpatine's. There's no avenue for Nihilus.
Instead of attempting to argue power scaling you switched over to feats, in response to my suggestion that we do so. I ****ing win again.
Originally posted by SunRazer
By striking first against the Council after talking for a period of time?
What do you mean striking first? She attacked them with TK before hand and then they were ready for a fight. But yes.
Originally posted by SunRazer
The attack can be performed subconsciously - but not at that level.
It speaks to the level of ease the attack has.
Originally posted by SunRazer
That's an appeal to ignorance.Nihilus has no reason to incapacitate anyone if he could just Drain them instantly. He doesn't have to worry about their story or anything. If he could, he'd just Drain them to death instantly.
In that you're making statements completely ignorant of the facts, yes. You're the one speculating without any evidence. You're the one appealing to ignorance by arguing that because he did it in those situations, he can't do it in any other. It's an absurdity. The attack is shown to be quick and easy. There's no evidence otherwise.
His apprentice was there and he clearly wanted to talk to them given that he walked up to do so.
Originally posted by SunRazer
That was actually Visas' perspective, and given that she was basically brainwashed by Nihilus, I'm in doubt of that. Especially since TCSWE claims that he only drained worlds that he "blasted into ruin", and he wasn't able to drain Telos since he never blasted it into ruin. So it seems that he needs to do that first.
😐
You're not serious are you?
Originally posted by SunRazer
He doesn't need to know where they are, lol. He can just wipe everything on the planet by speaking, if you're taking Unseen, Unheard literally. And he didn't.
Don't pretend to be stupider than you are, it's unbecoming. He was informed there were Jedi on the planet and when he couldn't sense them he was confused. These are all standard lines when attempting to lowball Nihilus and it's incredibly boring to have to destroy them again. Honestly, I thought you were better than this.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Surpass the resistance of unsuspecting and thus defenseless Jedi and Miraluka? I don't know, my pinky might be able to do that.
Unseen, Unheard shows them reacting to it. Do your research next time. Plus Jedi senses.
Originally posted by SunRazer
That there's no defense doesn't mean that it instantly kills anything, or that it can't be resisted. Even Visas Marr was able to resist it to a degree. I think one can hypothesize that a more powerful being could resist it as well, similar to the way Exar Kun resisted Odan-Urr's Sever Force, simply because the power requires the severing of Force connections to begin with, and as per my example of Kun and Odan-Urr, that isn't possible against stronger beings (certainly not against much stronger beings). Also, Kreia's statements aren't gospel. I take it, but it's not incontrovertible - she isn't omniscient.After all, according to her, Nihilus hasn't reached the stage where he can consume anything that lives, which you failed to address.
Visas didn't resist shit. And I don't care what you hypothesize, it's just unsupported speculation. Kreia may not be omniscient, but it doesn't matter. She's the best information we have on the topic. There's no evidence indicating a defense does exist, so trying to say that there might be is just a paltry guess on your part.
Perhaps because it doesn't mean anything. It isn't the smoking gun you're deluding yourself into thinking that it is. This response was way worse than I expected from you.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku was "stopping" himself from killing Anakin as well. People exaggerate themselves in their heads all the time, even in the case where they're supposedly holding themselves back from something. That he thought he could do it doesn't change anything about what I said.
Dooku stopped himself from killing Anakin in the sense that he decided to withhold fighting skill because he was confident of his chances. He wasn't actively preventing himself from tearing something apart. They're not comparable examples.
Your ravings please me. I've broken you. 🙂
I like the things you tell yourself to cushion the crushing impact of the realization that you've lost. 🙂
Tobin's statements are supported by the loading screen. Plus he's discussing things that have [b]actually happened instead of the imaginings of a maniac with a god complex.[/b]
Not all of them. And no, isn't he the one who discusses Nihilus' ability to destroy everything?
The TK argument is just as unsupported. The basis of the argument is that the only explanation for the quote is that he must have used TK. To refute this argument all I need to do is introduce alternatives, and therefore make it impossible to determine what he did or did not do. Therefore your argument becomes invalid. I've won. Case the **** closed.
It's TK or an equivalent power that allows him to cause the burying in of itself.
Besides, if Sidious was demonstrating his powers, do you seriously think that TK'ing the controls would be a sufficient display? The actual bringing down of the ship through sheer power would be a more considerable display of power than something that just about any of his adepts, with sufficient concentration, can do.
Instead of attempting to argue power scaling you switched over to feats, in response to my suggestion that we do so. I ****ing win again.
I didn't "switch over". I showed you that I could adopt either stance and still win, since Sidious is his better either way.
Heck, I don't even need to prove that Sidious' master of telekinesis supersedes Nihilus', only that Sidious is a master of telekinesis to begin with. With that, his supremacy quotes instantly put him over Nihilus.
Currently, your case hinges on Sidious being inept with telekinesis. Start to back it up.
What do you mean striking first? She attacked them with TK before hand and then they were ready for a fight. But yes.
She attacked them with Drain as they ran towards her, and after a monologue during which she may well have gathered her powers.
It speaks to the level of ease the attack has.
Actually, you've just reminded me that I can draw a comparison between their passive usages of Force Drain. Nihilus' passive drain was enough to slowly leech life from the bridge's crew, which at most is about two dozen people, and they were in the same room as him. Sidious' passive drain affected the majority of nearly twenty billion beings, and he spent quite a lot of his time away from Byss, which would mean that he was doing this from across the galaxy.
Once again, the comparison is in Sidious' favor, and by a landslide.
In that you're making statements completely ignorant of the facts, yes. You're the one speculating without any evidence. You're the one appealing to ignorance by arguing that because he did it in those situations, he can't do it in any other. It's an absurdity. The attack is shown to be quick and easy. There's no evidence otherwise.
Stating that "it's right because nothing proves that it's wrong" is the textbook definition of an appeal to ignorance. You're defaulting on that because you can't prove it, evidently.
The attack was shown to be quick and easy after Nihilus had the chance to gather power, yeah. You haven't given me an instance of them Draining any non-fodder characters without gathering power first.
His apprentice was there and he clearly wanted to talk to them given that he walked up to do so.
Nihilus had nothing to say to Traya (or Mandalore), yet he elected to incapacitate them first.
😐You're not serious are you?
I am. It's a consistent theme that Nihilus can't just come up to a planet, wave his arm, and kill all life instantly. TCSWE and the Battle of Telos IV in KotOR II show that.
Don't pretend to be stupider than you are, it's unbecoming. He was informed there were Jedi on the planet and when he couldn't sense them he was confused. These are all standard lines when attempting to lowball Nihilus and it's incredibly boring to have to destroy them again. Honestly, I thought you were better than this.
Nihilus doesn't discriminate. Even if there were no Jedi, he would've fed off the planet to sustain himself for a time, as Visas suggested. So why didn't he do that? As I said, he doesn't discriminate, he only needs to feed his hunger. Even if they weren't there, he wasn't going to waste his energy traveling to Telos for nothing. He would've fed to sustain himself.
Unseen, Unheard shows them reacting to it. Do your research next time. Plus Jedi senses.
It shows Visas reacting. The only reaction was to the moment of death itself. As for Jedi senses, based on what? Atris was the only one who foresaw the attack. The comic only states that the Miraluka felt Nihilus when the latter struck, not as he approached.
Anyways, I'm retracting my point about the defenselessness, because it's not necessary and I don't want to waste my time on this.
Visas didn't resist shit.
Yet she was the only one who withstood his Drain?
And I don't care what you hypothesize, it's just unsupported speculation. Kreia may not be omniscient, but it doesn't matter. She's the best information we have on the topic. There's no evidence indicating a defense does exist, so trying to say that there might be is just a paltry guess on your part.
I didn't say that a defense exists. I said that a defense not existing doesn't preclude the possibility of being able to resist the attack through sheer power disparity, or other means.
Perhaps because it doesn't mean anything. It isn't the smoking gun you're deluding yourself into thinking that it is. This response was way worse than I expected from you.
Because it proves that there are beings beyond Nihilus' scope of ability to consume life? And Sidious, as Nihilus' factual superior, would logically fit into such a group?
I don't care what you expect of me. I don't live for your expectations.
Originally posted by SunRazerI would just point out that according to Starships of the Galaxy the SSD was wrapped up in girders and machinery, presumably making the function of its standard engines infeasible. So yeah, it would have had to be levitated in somehow.
Besides, if Sidious was demonstrating his powers, do you seriously think that TK'ing the controls would be a sufficient display? The actual bringing down of the ship through sheer power would be a more considerable display of power than something that just about any of his adepts, with sufficient concentration, can do.