Originally posted by PetrusHe is a survivalist. Maul did fight him and when he lost he begged for his life. He didn't the next time the two met. Palpatine begged for his life against Windu and then tried to duck out of a fight against Yoda once he defended himself. That's a coward right there. Probably wished he order 66'd him pretty badly right there.
Are you still bitter over the fact that Maul begged Sidious for his life, or what?
Originally posted by The EllimistI do not hate Sidious so that's blatantly untrue. He's in my top five Star Wars characters. He's a coward though on more than one occasion. Just because I call a spade a spade that doesn't imply an emotion.
Yeah honestly, quanchi wanks a character who grovels at the fest of the character he hates. It's so weird.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He is a survivalist. Maul did fight him and when he lost he begged for his life. He didn't the next time the two met. Palpatine begged for his life against Windu and then tried to duck out of a fight against Yoda once he defended himself. That's a coward right there. Probably wished he order 66'd him pretty badly right there.
I accept Palpatine is a coward, so you telling me he begged for his life to Windu really doesn't hit any nerves, dude. Why can't you also accept the same about Maul? Also, why are you so anxious for the 'church of Sheev' to fall, huh? Are you just pissed at how he completely owns Maul? Or do you honestly [and incomprehensibly so] believe Snoke to be a better character to Sheev Palpatine...? Please, explain your reasons.
Originally posted by PetrusMaul isn't a lifelong coward like Sheev was. He changed and grew from the experience whereas Sheev lived a lifetime in the shadows. He is better than Maul. I acknowledge facts. I'm fine with it.
I accept Palpatine is a coward, so you telling me he begged for his life to Windu really doesn't hit any nerves, dude. Why can't you also accept the same about Maul? Also, why are you so anxious for the 'church of Sheev' to fall, huh? Are you just pissed at how he completely owns Maul? Or do you honestly [and incomprehensibly so] believe Snoke to be a better character to Sheev Palpatine...? Please, explain your reasons.
It's a personal preference type thing. Firstly, he seems injured which makes his history all the more interesting. A very powerful character probably motivated due to previous life experiences which is refreshing. Very mysterious indeed. He also has a screen presence and fantastic voice. Seducing Ben Solo into killing his own father is a stroke of genius even Sheev was unable to manipulate with regards to Anakin and Luke.
Palpatine is some boring coward hiding his true intentions while in the darkness striking without the Jedi being aware of his identity. He was a boring coward who died a pretty embarrassing death at the hands of his apprentice who served him for decades. Oops.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul isn't a lifelong coward like Sheev was. He changed and grew from the experience whereas Sheev lived a lifetime in the shadows. He is better than Maul. I acknowledge facts. I'm fine with it.It's a personal preference type thing. Firstly, he seems injured which makes his history all the more interesting. A very powerful character probably motivated due to previous life experiences which is refreshing. Very mysterious indeed. He also has a screen presence and fantastic voice. Seducing Ben Solo into killing his own father is a stroke of genius even Sheev was unable to manipulate with regards to Anakin and Luke.
Palpatine is some boring coward hiding his true intentions while in the darkness striking without the Jedi being aware of his identity. He was a boring coward who died a pretty embarrassing death at the hands of his apprentice who served him for decades. Oops.
I agree with everything you said about Snoke.
Not about Sheev, though. You have to realize that hiding his presence from the Jedi was a necessity if he was to become the Supreme Chancellor and dominate the galaxy. It's also pretty clear that he knew the most efficient way to reach power and to have influence over a huge part of the galaxy was via politics. It's all really a matter of convenience and the usage of effective methods rather than cowardice. He was indeed a coward, as most true Sith are, but I don't question or blame his methods, in fact, I praise them. He managed what nobody before him managed, and he did it masterfully by eradicating the Jedi Order in a single strike. He was a mastermind, he knew how things needed to happen in order to succeed. He was anything but boring, tbh.
Originally posted by PetrusHe was a lucky mastermind. He was lucky Windu hesitated to kill him. He was also lucky Yoda was a failure as he had once chance to kill him. Most Sith aren't cowards IMO but Sidious definitely was from killing his old master to trying to duck a fight against Yoda. He was in the right place at the right time and benefited from it. It's a lot easier to strike your enemies when you're privy to their Intel and they aren't aware of your motives. Most villains aren't lucky enough to be in this situation.
I agree with everything you said about Snoke.Not about Sheev, though. You have to realize that hiding his presence from the Jedi was a necessity if he was to become the Supreme Chancellor and dominate the galaxy. It's also pretty clear that he knew the most efficient way to reach power and to have influence over a huge part of the galaxy was via politics. It's all really a matter of convenience and the usage of effective methods rather than cowardice. He was indeed a coward, as most true Sith are, but I don't question or blame his methods, in fact, I praise them. He managed what nobody before him managed, and he did it masterfully by eradicating the Jedi Order in a single strike. He was a mastermind, he knew how things needed to happen in order to succeed. He was anything but boring, tbh.
He was extremely boring to me. Glad his reign his over. He was in the end weak and stupid since he didn't foresee Vader turning on him while he needlessly tortured his own for well over a minute.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He was a lucky mastermind. He was lucky Windu hesitated to kill him. He was also lucky Yoda was a failure as he had once chance to kill him. Most Sith aren't cowards IMO but Sidious definitely was from killing his old master to trying to duck a fight against Yoda. He was in the right place at the right time and benefited from it. It's a lot easier to strike your enemies when you're privy to their Intel and they aren't aware of your motives. Most villains aren't lucky enough to be in this situation.He was extremely boring to me. Glad his reign his over. He was in the end weak and stupid since he didn't foresee Vader turning on him while he needlessly tortured his own for well over a minute.
Luck? He didn't achieve his political power because he was lucky. His raise to power was carefully crafted, planned and developed. He put himself there, luck didn't do shit.
Originally posted by PetrusHis true identity was hidden which is lucky as most villains don't have that luxury. I already explained key moments in which mere chance fell in his favor. Imagine if most villains can be in the room when the good guys are plotting against the bad guys. The Jedi were idiots in his era. Yoda was the epitome of fail.
Luck? He didn't achieve his political power because he was lucky. His raise to power was carefully crafted, planned and developed. He put himself there, luck didn't do shit.
Originally posted by quanchi112
His true identity was hidden which is lucky as most villains don't have that luxury. I already explained key moments in which mere chance fell in his favor. Imagine if most villains can be in the room when the good guys are plotting against the bad guys. The Jedi were idiots in his era. Yoda was the epitome of fail.
He hid his true identity by drawing on his remarkable affinity and mastery of the Force, which granted him this advantage. Not luck.
He and Plagueis carefully planned and crafted their raise to power in Republic political circles. Not luck.
Palpatine's rise to power happened due to the way in which his plans unfolded and due to him actually making stuff happen. Luck was never involved.
Originally posted by PetrusThey never knew his identity which made this easier to accomplish. He was also lucky to have such a wise master.
He hid his true identity by drawing on his remarkable affinity and mastery of the Force, which granted him this advantage. Not luck.
He and Plagueis carefully planned and crafted their raise to power in Republic political circles. Not luck.Palpatine's rise to power happened due to the way in which his plans unfolded and due to him actually making stuff happen. Luck was never involved.
You ignored the key events and all the advantages he as a villain have that most don't have. You also ignored how foolishly he died over a risk he never needed to take. He held the galaxy and risked it in acquiring one Jedi. Dumb mistake. He deserved to die.
I think even you can agree with my last point.
Originally posted by quanchi112
They never knew his identity which made this easier to accomplish. He was also lucky to have such a wise master.
Yes, they never knew his true identity because he made it so. Because he used the Force to his advantage. He made things easier to accomplish, not luck.
I can agree with the fact that he had a very good master.
You ignored the key events and all the advantages he as a villain have that most don't have.
You ignored that those advantages he has as a villain were developed and employed by him. He created those advantages, he created these that most don't have. It wasn't just handed over to him. He made it happen. That deserves merit, and a lot of it.
You also ignored how foolishly he died over a risk he never needed to take. He held the galaxy and risked it in acquiring one Jedi. Dumb mistake. He deserved to die.
His sole mistake was believing without doubt that Vader's loyalty to him did not falter with the introduction of Luke into his life. Yes, it was a fatal mistake, I agree. But Maul has made a couple of fatal mistakes here and there, too.
Luke may be just a Jedi, but he's not really 'just a Jedi'. He's the Jedi that would become more powerful than himself and Vader, and Palpatine knew this. He was a diamond in the rough in Palpatine's eyes, and worth risking a lot to acquire.
Originally posted by PetrusAnd despite those luxuries he was still vulnerable to Windu. His master and his training really put Sheev into a quite favorable position.
Yes, they never knew his true identity because he made it so. Because he used the Force to his advantage. He made things easier to accomplish, not luck.I can agree with the fact that he had a very good master.
i think you're overstating the credit he gets as he was still trained and put into this position due to meticulous training with his former master.
You ignored that those advantages he has as a villain were developed and employed by him. He created those advantages, he created these that most don't have. It wasn't just handed over to him. He made it happen. That deserves merit, and a lot of it. [/B]
Maul made no fatal mistakes since he's still alive in canon while Sheev isn't.His sole mistake was believing without doubt that Vader's loyalty to him did not falter with the introduction of Luke into his life. Yes, it was a fatal mistake, I agree. But Maul has made a couple of fatal mistakes here and there, too.
Luke may be just a Jedi, but he's not really 'just a Jedi'. He's the Jedi that would become more powerful than himself and Vader, and Palpatine knew this. He was a diamond in the rough in Palpatine's eyes, and worth risking a lot to acquire. [/B]
One Jedi doesn't mean shit against galactic authority. Having Luke didn't dhange his position in terms of dictatorship in the galaxy so it was a dumb move. It's like risking stealing a better car when you own the entire lot save that one car. It isn't necessary and his greed was his undoing.