Originally posted by ILS
Yoda's TK would be perfectly effective against Dooku, seeing as Sidious casually choked him across the galaxy, and casually pinned Maul and Savage: the way TK works in canon is you have a barrier, and that barrier can be broken with enough power (see Dooku's force push against Anakin and Obi-Wan, which they blocked). Yoda clearly has enough power, he just didn't retaliate with it, even though he had ample opportunity to.
No. Yoda couldn't be capable of TKing Dooku if he tried. You don't have a passive Force shield in Canon like in Legends.
If you're prepared for a telekinetic attack, you're going to resist it. If you're unprepared, you're going to be vulnerable.
It has next to nothing to do with power unless you're like Dooku and ripped Ventress' sabers from her hands or the difference in power is immense.
Originally posted by ChocolateMuesliSo even if we forget the picture, and assume that Yoda had no conflict whatsoever about killing his old padawan, you're claiming that we've only ever seen Yoda go all out against Sidious.
i simply responded to your useless picture you posted, not how close dooku is to yodabut no, yoda wouldnt hold back against ventress because he knows he's better, he would hold back because thats how the jedi operate. mace fought to capture sidious and not kill him because that's how it works, doesn't mean he didn't try as hard as possible to capture him.
Hence why Dooku lasted as long as he did. Besides, there the mitigating factor of Dooku knowing Yoda's preferred form, Ataru, inside and out due to sparring Qui-Gon thousands of times, as well as Yoda himself.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66That's a nice opinion you got there. For my money, Yoda's TK would absolutely work against Dooku, considering he's a peer of Sidious, who would absolutely eviscerate Dooku with TK.
No. Yoda couldn't be capable of TKing Dooku if he tried. You don't have a passive Force shield in Canon like in Legends.If you're prepared for a telekinetic attack, you're going to resist it. If you're unprepared, you're going to be vulnerable.
It has next to nothing to do with power unless you're like Dooku and ripped Ventress' sabers from her hands or the difference in power is immense.
Originally posted by ILS
Ant is arguing Yoda went all out, like he did against Sidious, that Yoda's TK isn't going to affect Dooku in a fight etc
Lucas' right-hand said Yoda was treating Sidious differently than Dooku. That's echoed in Fact Files.
Originally posted by ILS
That's a nice opinion you got there. For my money, Yoda's TK would absolutely work against Dooku, considering he's a peer of Sidious, who would absolutely eviscerate Dooku with TK.
There's way too many examples of lesser Force-users TKing greater Force-users.
> Asajj suspends Anakin, Obi-Wan in a Force choke.
> Savage suspends Dooku, Asajj in a Force choke.
> Maul suspends Sidious in a Force choke (DS).
> Vader suspends Sidious in a Force choke.
I don't see how beings have a passive Force barrier.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Well yeah, we basically agree then. Yoda's a Sidious-level duelist when he's going all out, otherwise you get what you get with the Dooku fight - Yoda not trying his hardest. If you want to call that "going easy" "treating Dooku differently" or whatever, phrase it however you like.
I said he wasn't going easy - not that he was fighting the same way as he was vs Sidious.Lucas' right-hand said Yoda was treating Sidious differently than Dooku. That's echoed in Fact Files.
Originally posted by ILS
Well yeah, we basically agree then. Yoda's a Sidious-level duelist when he's going all out, otherwise you get what you get with the Dooku fight - Yoda not trying his hardest. If you want to call that "going easy" "treating Dooku differently" or whatever, phrase it however you like.
Yoda treats Dooku normally. Yoda treats Sidious differently.
Rather than the reverse, which gives a different impression.
Originally posted by ILS
Well yeah, we basically agree then. Yoda's a Sidious-level duelist when he's going all out, otherwise you get what you get with the Dooku fight - Yoda not trying his hardest. If you want to call that "going easy" "treating Dooku differently" or whatever, phrase it however you like.
Eh, above Sidious level.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66So what is the basis for Sidious not being able to affect Obi-Wan with TK?
In Legends? Agreed. In Canon, I don't think Sidious is TKing even Kenobi straight-up.There's way too many examples of lesser Force-users TKing greater Force-users.
> Asajj suspends Anakin, Obi-Wan in a Force choke.
> Savage suspends Dooku, Asajj in a Force choke.
> Maul suspends Sidious in a Force choke (DS).
> Vader suspends Sidious in a Force choke.I don't see how beings have a passive Force barrier.
I get your point Ant: you want to create a comparison between Yoda and Anakin vs Dooku, to bump KF Vader above Yoda. But it's an unfair comparison for Yoda for a number of reasons, one of which is the fact Yoda wasn't fighting at the same level as he was against Sidious, whereas, Anakin was trying harder than ever to kill Dooku. There's also the matter of styles altering the outcome of fights.
Originally posted by ILS
So what is the basis for Sidious not being able to affect Obi-Wan with TK?
Sidious would have ragdolled Maul later in the fight though. He didn't - he waited until after he disarmed him.
I get your point Ant: you want to create a comparison between Yoda and Anakin vs Dooku, to bump KF Vader above Yoda. But it's an unfair comparison for Yoda for a number of reasons, one of which is the fact Yoda wasn't fighting at the same level as he was against Sidious, whereas, Anakin was trying harder than ever to kill Dooku. There's also the matter of styles altering the outcome of fights.
Truly, the word "Anakin" never crossed my mind this entire conversation except in the context of (edit) TCWS6. You're becoming far too paranoid.
I'll gladly debate with you Anakin and Yoda's respective performances vs Dooku, in which Anakin's is better and that can be reasonably concluded, but that's not really what we're discussing here, is it?
There's two ways to mitigate the Yoda/Dooku conundrum Imo.
1) Yoda can't physiologically bring himself to bare his full might against the Count
2) Yoda, after decades of relative training dormancy, grew stronger during the Clone Wars, like the other centre stage Jedi at that time
Yoda is a tier 9, Dooku is a tier 8, and unlike Mace he isn't teetering on the edges. There is is supposedly an order of magnitude between their powers, or at the very least a decisive gap. Dooku would probably retreat against a fresh B-team, Sidious can blitz them.
Originally posted by ILS
If by differently you mean, trying harder than ever to kill someone, you betcha.
Not really. Vs Sidious, his moves were far more precise, more deliberate, more conservative.
That doesn't necessarily mean trying harder - it means fighting differently to fight a different opponent.
Vs Dooku, he's far more liberal to do whatever he wants because the threat of Dooku harming him is less.
When Yoda crosses sabers with the movie's arch-villain, he doesn't launch into a pinwheeling display of acrobatics, as he did against Count Dooku in Episode II. Instead, Yoda faces the dark side's fury, channeled by the most powerful Sith Lord in history. "Rob Coleman wanted Yoda to feel the power of his enemy," says Wheless, "like a force he's never dealt with before."