Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Sure. Though I can apply the same logic to Sidious as a physical fighter being better suited than Dooku. You also seem to be forgetting Kenobi was going on the offensive when facing Oppress and Maul as he realized he didn't have the stamina to indefinitely hold off Maul and Oppress with his Soresu.
You seem to use and dismiss Shadow Conspiracy as it suits you.
There's nothing in the actual episode about Soresu not being used in his fight against Maul and Opress. In fact the fight doesn't start off with Kenobi suddenly going on the offense to catch Maul/Opress off guard. They are the ones who attack first.
And if you note carefully, apart from the odd jump at each opponent, his offensive is mainly made up of physical attacks, but in terms of Sabers, he's mostly defending himself against both opponents.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Regardless, the flat comparison ILS is trying to draw here doesn't work because Dooku has performed far better as a duelist, and ILS is trying to use the correlation between force power and saber ability as the basis of his argument, against a far superior duo to the one he struggled with in season 3.
No, he outclasses Obi-Wan. He always has, yet clearly the difference between Dooku and Obi-Wan can't (or at least shouldn't) be that huge.
It's either just a clash of styles (Kenobi is forced on the offensive a lot), or Dooku simply knows how best to tackle Obi-Wan.
Put it this way, if I was to judge Maul and Dooku by their fights against Opress, then Maul would come across as the FAR superior duelist.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Not very well I'm afraid. 🙁
An outline of the good Count's wreckage:-> Skywalker is thrown back several feet in a bladelock:
https://youtu.be/OcXaicGvcvA?t=57s
-> Then he gets thrown back several feet again:
https://youtu.be/OcXaicGvcvA?t=59s
-> Anakin is then driven back:
https://youtu.be/OcXaicGvcvA?t=1m16s
-> Anakin is forced to cartwheel back after missing Dooku with an overhead swing:
https://youtu.be/OcXaicGvcvA?t=1m20s
-> Dooku physically breaches Anakin's guard kicking him against a pillar:
https://youtu.be/OcXaicGvcvA?t=1m23s
-> Dooku drives Anakin back despite having Anakin's master behind him:
https://youtu.be/OcXaicGvcvA
-> Dooku kicks Anakin again, this tike landing a hit on Anakin's skull:
https://youtu.be/OcXaicGvcvA?t=1m30s
Simply put, Anakin was outclassed. Dooku steadily drove him back each time the two were alone and even when Anakin had Kenobi helping him, threw him several feet twice in bladelocks, and physically breached his guard twice. Anakin hardly held his own here.
With the semi-exception of the carwheel at the end, Anakin is not once properly floored, disarmed, or in particular need of Obi-Wan to save him.
In fact Obi-Wan even sends Anakin to stop Dooku 1 on 1 right after. I doubt he would do that if he was utterly outclassed.
Just face it, Anakin does far far better against Dooku 1 on 1 (even right after that same fight). And again someone going on the defensive or being driven back by an assault doesn't mean they're outclassed.
If it does, then Dooku was laughably outclassed on Naboo.
At least Anakin actually kick dropeed Dooku right in front of him, and began choking him. Dooku gained no such advantage over Anakin in their S6 fight.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Kenobi didn't do much better though, almost getting kicked of a ledge and then being picked up and thrown the one time he tried to confront Dooku on his own.To put it simply, Dooku performs far better against a duo who themselves utterly outclass the duo Dooku can barely beat.
Yes Kenobi's never done very well against Dooku. Everyone admits that. But he's always been on the offensive with him, and Makashi is clearly a much better form to take on Soresu than Juyo or Djem So.
Maul performs far better against Opress than Dooku does. So snap.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Maul did far better than Anakin did here.Mace being an 8 bordering 9 and Lucas's own statement on the matter ensure he can hold his own in a saber contest, but that part of the fight, where Mace is barely attacked at all doesn't really prove anything. Regardless, the gap between TCW Anakin and Kenobi is nowhere near the gap between Windu and Fisto.
The problem being Anakin himself was battered.
Point being just because one combatant is clearly outclassed, doesn't mean you can blame his partner for that.
Funny, I don't remember seeing Anakin in any kind of pain, or seeing a single bruise on him. So that's a strange definition of battered.
If that was battered then what the heck was Dooku on Naboo?
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Both Oppress and Maul were able to stand next to each other with room to spare and they ended up fighting on separate sides of each other. Oppress had all the room he needed to use the force if he could. What you are referring to from Shadow Conspiracy, which was based off an incomplete script, blatantly contradicts the episode itself and hence can be dismissed.
Nope. I'm referring to the environment we saw on the actual episode.
When Opress force waved Anakin and Obi-Wan there was clear space between them. He did no such thing to them when they were actually clashing Sabers.
That cave was way too tight man. You forget, Opress doesn't have the kind of TK Mastery Maul does, where he can levitate Obi-Wan. He just does massive blasts. Given Kenobi was pinned in between Maul and Opress a lot of the time, how would that even work without him hitting Maul as well?
Besides he wasn't getting much opportunity, given Kenobi was all over him kicking his knees in.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Link what you're talking about? All I saw was Anakin and Kenobi being steadily driven back.
You need to be more observant. Did you never notice how at some point Opress was missing a horn?
Well let's see exactly when that happened:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxrtPnhNtZE
At 0:10-0:13, right as he engages the Anakin/Obi-Wan duo, Opress has all his horns.
The At 0:35, just as his duel with Anakin/Obi-Wan ends, he has a horn missing. That horn is always missing from then on out.
Yet another example of how being driven back doesn't mean you're losing. Any combatant can decide anytime that it's better to give ground and fight defensively.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
And yet after all this growth, he turns out to be little better than fodder to someone who a season later is getting outclassed by Dooku with help.
Clash of styles. Maul handled Opress far easier than both Obi-Wan and Dooku.