Revan and Vitate vs Sidious and Yoda

👆 4Voldemort

This is force only, right?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Round 1
* RotS Yoda
* RotS Darth Sidious
* SWTOR Vitate
* SOR Revan

Yoda lacks a considerable offensive force arsenal. He can, quite literally, just utilize TK. While I fail to see how Revan would overpower him, I also fail to see how Sidious would deal with Vitiate. In fact, the latter has everything going for him, if he doesn't need to fight with a lightsaber. So Vitiate defeats Sidious, then the team defeats Yoda. Best possible argueable result for PT faction: Stalemate.

Round 2
* RotS Yoda
* RotS Darth Sidious
* KoftFE Valkorion
* SOR Revan

Again. Yoda lacks offensive force powers.
And Valkorion could probably solo this, given that there is nothing to indicate that either Sidious or Yoda could tank the kind of punishment that Valkorion can deal with his offensive force abilities. The guy takes out spaceships as collateral damage, because they fly around next to a tower in which he attempts to electrocute his son. Seriously.

Round 3
* RotS Yoda
* DE Darth Sidious
* KoftFE Valkorion
* SOR Revan

Possible the most evenly matched fight. But again: The best Yoda can do is "stalemate" Revan or keep him under control in a force contest. I'd say the same could be argued for DE Sidious and Valkorion. So I go for the stalemate option here.

Originally posted by Nai
Yoda lacks a considerable offensive force arsenal. He can, quite literally, just utilize TK.

Regardless, the ability to turn your enemies powers back at them can prove just as potent, see Revan's handling of Darth Nyriss.

While I fail to see how Revan would overpower him, I also fail to see how Sidious would deal with Vitiate.

Again. Yoda lacks offensive force powers.

mmm

And Valkorion could probably solo this, given that there is nothing to indicate that either Sidious or Yoda could tank the kind of punishment that Valkorion can deal with his offensive force abilities. The guy takes out spaceships as collateral damage, because they fly around next to a tower in which he attempts to electrocute his son. Seriously.

Regardless, I'd say being significantly more powerful than an individual who tanked this:

And himself tanking this:

Should put those doubts to rest.* Yoda being in the same league as Sids suggests the same would be the case.

*Hint: both those blasts are far more powerful.

Possible the most evenly matched fight. But again: The best Yoda can do is "stalemate" Revan or keep him under control in a force contest.

I'd say the same could be argued for DE Sidious and Valkorion. So I go for the stalemate option here.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yoda's assault needs to be varied to be effective? Why?

It needs to be effective. Which it isn't.

Regardless, the ability to turn your enemies powers back at them can prove just as potent, see Revan's handling of Darth Nyriss.

Which would just result in energy being channeled back and forth, since Revan is able to redirect force attacks from Vitiate, which are probably more powerful than his own.

Same way he dealt with Yoda, I imagine. Only more decisively.

A more decisive stalemate ending with being lucky not getting your ass kicked, when you were just being overpowered? Yeah. Just leave out the "being lucky" part.

mmm

Force pushing somebody who isn't defending himself? Impressive.
I wonder how this leads to "victory" though, even in the event it should be successful. Because Revan, in that instance, would just get up again, much like Sidious did.

*failed to electrocute his son, due his powers being tanked.

Regardless, I'd say being significantly more powerful than an individual who tanked this:

And himself tanking this:

Should put those doubts to rest.* Yoda being in the same league as Sids suggests the same would be the case.

*Hint: both those blasts are far more powerful.

Ipsedixitism does still not win debates. Why do I need to lecture people on this? In case you don't get the point: That you say that those blasts are "far more powerful" than Valkorion's lightning doesn't make it so.

In fact, you may want to take a look at what Valkorion does, because, apparently, people don't grasp it:

YouTube video

1:06 - starts firing lightning at Arcann. The lightning storm fills the entire room in front of Valkorion, projects outward of the Spar in a massive lightning storm.

1:17 - just look at the size of that lightning attack outside the rather huge building

1:21 - a side arc of the Force lightning hits one of the ships, penetrates the hull (and possible shields) and kills the crew, leading to a crash.

1:41 - Scorpio comments the attack: "Incredible...life signs aboard all ships in the Spar's proximity have been neutralized." Again. Those are mere collateral damages, since Arcann was tanking most of the attack's power. Yet even a fraction of the part of the power that wasn't hitting Arcann directly is enough to penetrate starship hulls and kill multiple people aboard.

Or overpower and KO him. mmm

How? By force pushing him?

I'd say Sidious being holistically more powerful would assure him a win here. And I doubt it would even be close.

Yeah.
And if there was any evidence to suggest that Sidious is more powerful than Valkorion, you would have a case.

Originally posted by Nai
It needs to be effective. Which it isn't.

Which would just result in energy being channeled back and forth, since Revan is able to redirect force attacks from Vitiate, which are probably more powerful than his own.

A more decisive stalemate ending with being lucky not getting your ass kicked, when you were just being overpowered? Yeah. Just leave out the "being lucky" part.

Master Yoda made a last-ditch attempt to stop him, and their fight spilled over into the now-empty Senate rotunda. Darth Sidious overwhelmed Master Yoda with the destructive energy of the dark side, and the Jedi Master fled Coruscant.

Source: Databank: Darth Sidious

Force pushing somebody who isn't defending himself? Impressive.
I wonder how this leads to "victory" though, even in the event it should be successful. Because Revan, in that instance, would just get up again, much like Sidious did.

Ipsedixitism does still not win debates. Why do I need to lecture people on this?

In case you don't get the point: That you say that those blasts are "far more powerful" than Valkorion's lightning doesn't make it so.

In fact, you may want to take a look at what Valkorion does, because, apparently, people don't grasp it:

YouTube video

1:06 - starts firing lightning at Arcann. The lightning storm fills the entire room in front of Valkorion, projects outward of the Spar in a massive lightning storm.

1:17 - just look at the size of that lightning attack outside the rather huge building

1:21 - a side arc of the Force lightning hits one of the ships, penetrates the hull (and possible shields) and kills the crew, leading to a crash.

1:41 - Scorpio comments the attack: "Incredible...life signs aboard all ships in the Spar's proximity have been neutralized." Again. Those are mere collateral damages, since Arcann was tanking most of the attack's power. Yet even a fraction of the part of the power that wasn't hitting Arcann directly is enough to penetrate starship hulls and kill multiple people aboard.

1. an explosion caused by the destruction of a Sith superweapon, a superweapon powered by a giant Force-resonant kyber crystal, eight of which powered the planet-busting Death Star and the explosion of one of which did this. Or rather actually vaporised ships over a massive radius, and that one wasn't even weaponised.

2. an explosion unleashed by Galen Marek entering a state of Oneness and unleashing "all the power of the Force within him", a clone of which would go on to atomise a frigate without such extenuating circumstances.

But Valkorion's lighting downed ships right?

Yeah.
And if there was any evidence to suggest that Sidious is more powerful than Valkorion, you would have a case.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Something something ipedxismfisms.

Thanks for that well thought-out and accurate reply.
Number of opponents killed / ko'd permanently by Yoda's TK: Zero.
Not effective.

He knocked back a few lighting bolts, with his lightsaber. 😬

Ah. Yes. Didn't remember that correctly.
Which doesn't matter much, since Revan is most definetely capable of redirecting attacks coming from himself, being hurled back at him. Anything else doesn't make much sense.

No I mean the one where Sidious overpowered him.

👆

Which didn't happen. A rather bad description of the fight, doesn't overwrite its depiction in the movie material. Movie > all other sources.

I just wanted to make sure you knew how telekinesis worked, tis all. But to answer your question I imagine by repeating this action, and similar ones, until Revan stops getting up.

Yeah. Because Yoda is known for utilizing a fast repetition of telekinetic attacks against opponents. I must have understood the movies wrong, where he hardly ever uses the Force for attacks. And, of course, in the context of a fight, where people expect to be attacked with the Force, Revan wouldn't attempt any kind of defense - or attack first, seeing he is going up against a Jedi.

Who knows? I suppose when one learns a new word one might feel the need to make a song and dance of it, helps if you tone back the hypocrisy though.

Yeah. I like learning new words. I hope you aren't referring to "ipsedixitism" though, since that is so 2007.
And, gosh. Nice way to totally gloss over the point. 👆

I know darling, but I think its always fair to give my opponent a chance to work out for themselves first. 😉

Adding polish after the glossing? Nice...

Uhuh, am I supposed to be impressed? Excuse me if I can't help but find that second rate compared to:

Your personal opinion is rather insignificant.

1. an explosion caused by the destruction of a Sith superweapon, a superweapon powered by a giant Force-resonant kyber crystal, eight of which powered the planet-busting Death Star and the explosion of one of which did this. Or rather actually vaporised ships over a massive radius, and that one wasn't even weaponised.

I wonder what you bring this up for. We're not dealing with the general properties of kyber crystals or their weaponized applications, but with the explosion in question. Which doesn't even remotely compare to the other applications you sited.

But there we encounter the next weak point in your argument: You do recognize the difference between an omnidirectional explosion (the one Vader survived) and energy channeled onto one spot (like Valkorion's lightning)? Apparently not...

An explosion destributes energy equally outwards from its source. So only a fraction of it would have hit Vader at all. A very small fraction as a matter of fact, provided where most of the energy was going (upwards, being channeled through the structure) and where Vader was located at the point in time.

2. an explosion unleashed by Galen Marek entering a state of Oneness and unleashing "all the power of the Force within him", a clone of which would go on to atomise a frigate without such extenuating circumstances.

Again: One needs to wonder, why you even site different events. We're a judging the explosion as it happens in the clip you've provided. I don't see much evidence for that being stronger than the stuff Valkorion was unleashing. And once again you're attempting to compare apples (focused lightning beams on a single target) to oranges (an omnidirectional explosion).

But Valkorion's lighting downed ships right?

Urm. Can you read? I'm just asking, because you completely missed the point.
I will try to explain it in a fashion more suited for you.

1)
Valkorion unleashes force lightning. This is, basically, 100 percent of what he can do.

2)
Arcann tanks most of the attack. The exact amount that he takes is, of course, unknown, but anything short of 50 percent would imply a pointless waste of energy on Valkorion's side, so let us go with that.

3)
That means that at most 50 percent of Valkorion's total lightning strength passes around Arcann. This is still enough to create a lightning storm the size of a rather large building outside the Spar.

4)
A fraction of that 50 percent (a total of 2 to 5 percent maybe) is enough to bypass shields / armor of a spaceship and kill the crew. Although there seem to be more ships being hit if we go by Scorpio's comment on the situation.

So the point isn't that Vitiate down spaceships with his lightning, but that he does so with a fraction of his lightning, that wasn't hitting the intended target.

I would think that spreading the dark side throughout the galaxy with his mere presence would be enough.

I would think that bringing the same long debunked bullshit to the table every time gets boring. Apparently, it doesn't. 🙄

Answer me, Nai. If I create the thread will you answer the bell. Trek vs wars the six films I previously discussed. Yes or no ?

You're so desperate for senpai to notice you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're so desperate for senpai to notice you.

sidious beats any version of valk 10/10
yoda beats any version of valk 10/10
revan is fodder
team 2 sweeps.

Kbro has joined the forum, it seems.