What is REALLY "baking my noodle".

Having seen the movie four times by now, I thought I had it figured out… well, more or less. Until someone politely pointed out, that I had no real explanation for the Bane collapse at the end of M2.

There are plenty of threads now, discussing various aspects of the movie. I now have a batch of things I’d like to have cleared up, so if anyone was a good solution.

1) Why do the agents chase the Keymaker?
If Neo doesn’t get him, he won’t be able to get to the Source as he’s supposed to.

2) What does Smith really want?
To kill Neo, as we see Bane sneak after him with a knife? Or take his powers?

3) How many signs are there, that the Matrix as a system may be in serious trouble?

4) What kind of program is the Merovingian?

And the prize-winning question.

5) How can Neo stop the sentinels at the end of M2?
Has he copied himself inside the Source? Is there a Matrix within the Matrix, a copy of the real world which looks like the real world, we haven’t seen yet?

The Agents were chasing the Keymaker because that was logically what they would do. They are not 'in' on the secret, most likely, and if the system did not act as it was 'supposed' to then the carefully crafted deceit for Neo would fall apart.

IF the Prophecy had been true then the Agents would have been after the Keymaker. Hence they had to be after him even though it was false. It's the same reason they were tryinmg to stop Neo being awakened or to kill him, which also would have buggered things up. If you have a pretence you have to go through with it all the way.

Ok this crap is making sick of me im really exausted. Is better if i wait LLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG 4 months and that really make me sick. 4 MONTHS men this is awful

Ushgarak> Indeed. But would there would have been turns, where the system could’ve made it easier. The system NEEDS the anomaly to have a host so to speak. And the host must get to the Source to deliver the code.
I get the voluntary, the matrix only works by choice etc. The Architect also explained that it was necessary to keep the un-plugged humans in check to avoid a disaster. But after the Merovingian kidnapped the Keymaker (maybe for another reason than plain power, the french guy seems to know about the The One cycles?), the system had to wait to find him again. It would’ve been easier to help Neo find the Keymaker. That is what I don’t get.

BT> Yep! 🙂

I would have to agree with Ushgarak on this one, Had the system acted irregular, wouldn't have made people suspicous? Not to mention I would say the other 5 had to go through the same type scenario to get to the source. The system was working on a one hundred percent success rate. 5 for 5.

We probably have to agree on a few things first to sort this out. I don’t think the previous five ONES were all copies of Neo. It would’ve been too easy to spot the next One. “Oh, he looks like the one during the last execution of this program.”
Also, did the Merovingian kidnap the Keymaker all the five previous times?

Yes, I will agree, they weren't exactly like Neo, but look at the odds, the first 5 had followed, without making it easier. I think he did steal the keymaker. I think that is his purpose. Think, he said in the movie
"Your predecessors had more..." I can't remmeber the full quote, just that he makes reference to the other "anomolies" meaning he must have met them at some point.?

Look, IF the Prophecy had been TRUE, then the system would NOT have helped Neo find the Keymaker.

The Prophecy is false, but that's not the point. The System has to act 100% the same as it would have done anyway.

Amen!

Ushgarak> Exactly. The prophecy is NOT true. It’s just another system of control. The prophecy has but one purpose. To get the One to the Source. The system should help Neo to get to the Source, not work against him. Of course it should not be so obvious, that the rebels go “uh, why’s that agent not firing at us?”
Or is your argument, that only someone who can survive the endless attacks would be the real One? That the system is so wired that ONLY the One would even get to stand in front of the door?

My argument is that you should think of how the system acts if the prophecy were true.

For its plan to work, it must act the SAME way even though it is false. All the way until Neo opens the door and goes in.

I think it could be that, but actually now that I think about it the system did help Neo in a way. persephone helped him get the keymaker.

Persephone is not part of the system. And the game is rigged, of course, for it to go the Architect's way but that's not the point, the system still has to play its part 100% genuinely.

It is possible the Merovingian kidnapped the Keymaker SPECIFICALLY to stop the One being successful this time (which would mean that in previous incarnations he simply had to be found. The System could not have him captive- it would look ridiculously suspicious that the System would have such a being and keep him in the Matrix when his only purpose is to bugger them up).

Why the Merovingian would invite a Matrix crash I do not know but I am sure he has his plans.

But the Oracle, being the being it is, knew there was an opportunity for the Keymaker to be rescued, and thus the Merovingian was frustrated. Now, if only the Oracle had been more careful with its termination code...

I think the creator lied to him.The door to the source wasnt supposed to reset the matrix.The war never ended because neo didnt go to the source he was in the room next to it. Dont u think the arcitect would have told the agents not to kill the keymaker. They came so close to destroying the matrix.Even if wut he said about the matrix getting copied was true.Would the people who have to rebuild zion notice the is a huge hole in the ground to build the city.How lucky.Agent Smith wants to kill neo so then he could take over the matrix and rule the ai world.Like the trailor says you are all that stands in his way.Trinity could be a backup program so in case he got to the source he would take the wrong door to go save her.Then here is how neo stopped the sents.When neos code mixed with smith he was an agent.Agents program sents.he could of taken that ability with him like bane has smith in him.and if u remember that was his first sent encounter since he relized his code was mixed he couldnt do it before because he didnt relize he could.Neo didnt have ne super fighting powers before he left the matrix.

What bakes my nodle is the nightmare! How does Neo dream about something that then really happens! And him asking Trinity not to go into the Matrix inadvertadly (sp) aloows her to then go into the Matrix and save their butts!Any ideas?

Kes> How can Neo dream of what will happen in the Matrix? Okay, first of all I think it’s important to notice that he only dreams VR-dreams. He doesn’t dream of anything that happens in the REAL world (I know, more on that later).
In M1 we hear that the avatars in the Matrix are “mental projections of your digital self”, and that what we perceive as real is just electro-chemical signals in the brain. So thoughts and emotions in the Matrix are some kind of digital-programs.
Ok. The Oracle tells Neo that he is now able to see without time. He can read the entire programming of the Matrix, just like I can read a program source-code. The entire program-source code.
Being the anomaly means exactly that. That The One can read the entire Matrix program code.
So far so good.
Remember in M1, when The Oracle tells Neo not to worry about the vase? It’s the same thing in M2. Because Neo sees Trinity fall to her death, he, in a way, almost becomes the instrument of her death. This is where it becomes slightly odd.
Because Neo can see the entire Matrix-code, he can also see what commands will be executed later on in the run. He can see the future. Just like the Oracle. How does a sentient program deal with it’s own programming and the commands it has to execute later on in the run? Fate?
It gets even stranger. If Neo had NOT had his nightmare about Trinity falling, he would not have asked her to stay out of the Matrix, causing her to go in and save him, and fall to her death at the exact moment, where Neo has to choose between the doors in the Architects room.
What would he have chosen if he had not seen Trinity fall? If she were safe in Zion?
I think the point is, that without going metaphysical, in M2 we see the two worlds starting to blend and just how much they affect one another. The real world and the virtual matrix-world.

Originally posted by The Omega
It gets even stranger. If Neo had NOT had his nightmare about Trinity falling, he would not have asked her to stay out of the Matrix, causing her to go in and save him, and fall to her death at the exact moment, where Neo has to choose between the doors in the Architects room.

No she would have gone in with them and as soon as they open the door it would have exploded killing them all.
Also wether he dreams about stuff in the matrix or not it is still something that happens in the future though by asking her to stay he causes it and eventually saves himself.kinda confusing. And he is not like the Orecal (sp) because he only sees things when the code changes that means they already happen. 😕 Right? lol 😛

Kes> (Looks at you) Ehhhrrrrr¡K 🙂
Well, we could also say, he can see changes, which are made by choices, that are understandable. And even past those. So the reason he could not see whether or not Trinity would die, was because he did not understand the choice (asking her to stay behind). But he made that choice because he SAW her fall, as a result of the choice he did not understand¡K 😉
(Okay, I confused myself now.)

lol you confused us both!🙂

If he is able to read the commands that wiil be executed with different choises then he wouldnt need to worry about anything cause he would know everything..... I think