Accolades for PT Jedi being some of the best swordsmen in history?

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Could have sworn Yoda/Windu/Dooku at least had some 3rd person omniscient narrator accolades to this effect

They do. As does Qui-Gon:

"Jinn was generally regarded as one of the best pure swordsmen the Order had ever seen."

-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Anoon Bondara:

"Master Bondara epitomized what Darsha hoped to become one day. The Twi'lek Jedi Master lived in the Force. Always still and complacent as a pool of unknown depth, he was nevertheless one of the best fighters in the order."

-- Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter

"This Twi'lek Jedi Master -- always one to chafe at the rules and restrictions -- was regarded as one of the best fighters and duel instructors in the Jedi Order."

-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Shaak Ti:

"The Jedi revere Shaak Ti as one of the highest of their Order and among the most accomplished in lightsaber combat."

-- The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide

"The Jedi revere Shaak Ti as one of the highest of their Order, and one of the most accomplished in lightsaber combat, of which she mastered the Makashi and Ataru forms.

-- Star Wars UK Magazine 6.17

"Shaak Ti is a Master of Makashi and Ataru forms in addition to her legendary strength in the Force. Known far and wide as a cunning and serene Jedi, only the most skilled of the Order could stand against her!"

-- The Clone Wars Adventures

Kit Fisto:

"Even the greatest warriors of the Jedi -- Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, even Yoda -- could not defeat the Sith.

-- The Last of the Jedi: Underworld

Sora Bulq:

"Sora Bulq was one of the greatest lightsaber instructors the Jedi order had ever known, perfecting the various forms of combat techniques, both classical and experimental."

-- Star Wars Databank: Bulq, Sora

And prolly a few others I'm forgetting.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Could have sworn Yoda/Windu/Dooku at least had some 3rd person omniscient narrator accolades to this effect

I'm mainly looking for accolades for other people than those three.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Plo Koon is a member of the Jedi High Council and a Jedi General in the Clone Wars. Koon is one of the most powerful Jedi ever, with awesome fighting ability, strong telekinetic powers and superb piloting skills.

--Star Wars: Character Encyclopedia

The Koon quote doesn't say he's one of the most skilled in history. And the Bulq quote refers to him as a teacher, not as combatant. There's a difference.

The criteria you gave was not skill, simply "the best", Plo Koon being one of the most powerful Jedi ever thanks in part to his "awesome fighting ability" fits that bill.

As far as skill is concerned, its mastery of technique that the source attributes Sora's title to.

Originally posted by MythLord
They do. As does Qui-Gon:

"Jinn was generally regarded as one of the best pure swordsmen the Order had ever seen."

-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Regarded by whom? That's not an objective source.

Anoon Bondara:

"Master Bondara epitomized what Darsha hoped to become one day. The Twi'lek Jedi Master lived in the Force. Always still and complacent as a pool of unknown depth, he was nevertheless one of the best fighters in the order."

-- Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter

Is that from a third person perspective? Nevertheless, it doesn't refer to all of history.

"This Twi'lek Jedi Master -- always one to chafe at the rules and restrictions -- was regarded as one of the best fighters and duel instructors in the Jedi Order."

-- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Again, regarded by whom?

Shaak Ti:

"The Jedi revere Shaak Ti as one of the highest of their Order and among the most accomplished in lightsaber combat."

-- The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide

It's from the perspective of the PT Jedi and doesn't refer to all of history.

"The Jedi revere Shaak Ti as one of the highest of their Order, and one of the most accomplished in lightsaber combat, of which she mastered the Makashi and Ataru forms.

-- Star Wars UK Magazine 6.17

That's basically the same quote, lol

"Shaak Ti is a Master of Makashi and Ataru forms in addition to her legendary strength in the Force. Known far and wide as a cunning and serene Jedi, only the most skilled of the Order could stand against her!"

-- The Clone Wars Adventures

Doesn't refer to all of history.

Kit Fisto:

"Even the greatest warriors of the Jedi -- Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, even Yoda -- could not defeat the Sith.

-- The Last of the Jedi: Underworld

Doesn't refer to all of history

Sora Bulq:

"Sora Bulq was one of the greatest lightsaber instructors the Jedi order had ever known, perfecting the various forms of combat techniques, both classical and experimental."

-- Star Wars Databank: Bulq, Sora

Referring to him as a teacher, not as a combatant.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The criteria you gave was not skill, simply "the best", Plo Koon being one of the most powerful Jedi ever thanks in part to his "awesome fighting ability" fits that bill.

As far as skill is concerned, its mastery of technique that the source attributes Sora's title to.

Well, from now on you know I'm looking for accolades that talk about skill.

Technical sophistication isn't the same as combative ability.

Skill = technical sophistication and combative ability is what the Koon quote relates to, you need a pick a criteria.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Skill = technical sophistication and combative ability is what the Koon quote relates to, you need a pick a criteria.

I am specifically looking for combative ability and raw skill, not technical ability, since that doesn't necessarily mean you're an effective combatant.

The Koon quote basically says "Koon is skilled" and that's about it. I'm looking for quotes that refer to all of history.

@Az Regarded by a vast majority of Jedi, I'd assume. Jedi who obviously are well aware of past history, and I see no reason for them to suddenly be wrong just because you wish to dismiss it.

Also, just because it says "Order" without the addition of "all time" doesn't suddenly mean it isn't referring to the Order in-general, i.e. from the dawn of it's existance.

And Sora was noted as one of the greatest teachers/instructors because he had perfected every combat form, indicating his technical skill was some of the greatest in history.

Originally posted by Azronger
I am specifically looking for combative ability and raw skill, not technical ability, since that doesn't necessarily mean you're an effective combatant.

The Koon quote basically says "Koon is skilled" and that's about it. I'm looking for quotes that refer to all of history.

It says that Koon is the one of the most powerful Jedi in history in part due to his "awesome fighting [or combative] ability". That fulfils your criteria. I would also argue that technical proficiency does translate indeed translate into combat effectiveness.

Originally posted by MythLord
@Az Regarded by a vast majority of Jedi, I'd assume. Jedi who obviously are well aware of past history, and I see no reason for them to suddenly be wrong just because you wish to dismiss it.

Just because they're aware of the Order's history doesn't mean they had the ability test their skill against the dead, lol.

Also, just because it says "Order" without the addition of "all time" doesn't suddenly mean it isn't referring to the Order in-general, i.e. from the dawn of it's existance.

Given that we are talking about PT Jedi, I see no reason why we should expand the statement to include all eras, unless stated so.

And Sora was noted as one of the greatest teachers/instructors because he had perfected every combat form, indicating his technical skill was some of the greatest in history.

And as I said before, that doesn't mean you're an effective combatant. I'm pretty sure the Grand Inquisitor would be stomped by the majority of Jedi across all eras, yet his technical skill was to the point where he could identify a Jedi's chosen form in seconds.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
😕

It says that Koon is the one of the most powerful Jedi in history in part due to his "awesome fighting [or combative] ability". That fulfils your criteria. I would also argue that technical proficiency does translate indeed translate into combat effectiveness.

No, it states he's one of the most powerful Jedi ever. It doesn't say that "awesome fighting ability" is one of the reasons why. It's just one of the things attributed to Koon, alongside the "most powerful" accolade.

Besides, I wonder what the hell does lightsaber combat and piloting skills have to do with Force power, lol.

Originally posted by Azronger
No, it states he's one of the most powerful Jedi ever. It doesn't say that "awesome fighting ability" is one of the reasons why. It's just one of the things attributed to Koon, alongside the "most powerful" accolade.

Besides, I wonder what the hell does lightsaber combat and piloting skills have to do with Force power, lol.

You also overlooked my point regarding Sora Bulq.

Originally posted by Azronger
Just because they're aware of the Order's history doesn't mean they had the ability test their skill against the dead, lol.

I am aware. But those are beings who possess far superior knowledge on the subject than we do, unless they're missing some insane parts of the lore, which I doubt they would be.

Again, you're dismissing it based on an appeal to the subjectivist fallacy.

Originally posted by Azronger
Given that we are talking about PT Jedi, I see no reason why we should expand the statement to include all eras, unless stated so.

And I see no reason why we should consider the Jedi Order as of PT any different from the Order in KoTOR, its the same Order with the same principles and thus should apply to all eras and I see no reason why it should focus on just one.

Originally posted by Azronger
And as I said before, that doesn't mean you're an effective combatant. I'm pretty sure the Grand Inquisitor would be stomped by the majority of Jedi across all eras, yet his technical skill was to the point where he could identify a Jedi's chosen form in seconds.

Which is more due to a lack of physical augmentation, precognition and practical application on his part. But Bulq's ability to hang with Mace and trash Tholme is enough to not mark him in that field, obviously.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's not referring to Force power, but potency in general, hence why it lists a range of talents, or rather the features of one of the most powerful Jedi ever.

Eh, fair enough. Not in the mood to argue.

You also overlooked my point regarding Sora Bulq.

What point? You just said you'd argue technical sophistication translates to combat effectiveness (which it does, to an extent).

Originally posted by MythLord
[B]I am aware. But those are beings who possess far superior knowledge on the subject than we do, unless they're missing some insane parts of the lore, which I doubt they would be.

Again, you're dismissing it based on an appeal to the subjectivist fallacy.

What "far superior knowledge"? Sure, they have access to more in-universe lore than we do, but again, they have not sparred with the dead, so that's utterly irrelevant.

The subjectivist fallacy would require the truth to be objective. I've seen no proof that the opinions of the living on the dead are nothing more than their opinions.

And I see no reason why we should consider the Jedi Order as of PT any different from the Order in KoTOR, its the same Order with the same principles and thus should apply to all eras and I see no reason why it should focus on just one.

Eh, fair enough.

Which is more due to a lack of physical augmentation, precognition and practical application on his part. But Bulq's ability to hang with Mace and trash Tholme is enough to not mark him in that field, obviously.

So if the GI were given greater physicals, he'd be able to contend with the greats? GI is someone who fights Padawans, not masters.

Bulq only hung with Windu because the latter was conflicted. I see no evidence he could've, otherwise.

And what has Tholme got to his name, other than being stomped by Dooku?

Interestingly, Qui-Gon's only objective accolade(s) refer to him being among the best of his time, not of all time. The one that refers to all time mentions him being "generally regarded" as such, which isn't quite as concrete as the OP was looking for.

The OP's rather strict criteria allows for surprisingly few accolades, to be honest.

Originally posted by Azronger
What "far superior knowledge"? Sure, they have access to more in-universe lore than we do, but again, they have not sparred with the dead, so that's utterly irrelevant.

I'd assume greats like Vodo-Baas, Revan, Ulic, etc. would have their greatest achievements documented. So then the Jedi in-universe would compare those respective achievements to the level of skill Qui-Gon and Bondara possess.

Come to think of it, that's what we're doing, only those dudes have more access to lore(in some cases), superior intelligence and the Force. Their opinions might be more accurate than our own.

Originally posted by Azronger
The subjectivist fallacy would require the truth to be objective. I've seen no proof that the opinions of the living on the dead are nothing more than their opinions.

And dismissing it is your own opinion.

Originally posted by Azronger
So if the GI were given greater physicals, he'd be able to contend with the greats? GI is someone who fights Padawans, not masters.

Sure. The only reason the GI fights padawans is, well, because that's what he was made for. If he practicalised his lightsaber capabilities and improved his physical capabilities to the point of someone on, let's say, Jinn's level, he'd be capable of contending with some top-tier swordsmasters(of course, not Sheev, Luke, Yoda, Mace or Tyranus since they're a pretty high league).

Originally posted by Azronger
Bulq only hung with Windu because the latter was conflicted. I see no evidence he could've, otherwise.

Mace wasn't conflicted, he was distraught. Which means he's upset, basically. He might've been holding back, sure, but to what degree? He seems to be determined in capturing Sora, and he draws his blade first and initiates the combat.

Nobody's doubting Mace's superiority, but he's certainly not stomping Bulq.

Originally posted by Azronger
And what has Tholme got to his name, other than being stomped by Dooku?

Stalemating Quinlan Vos, and getting a compliment by Tyranus for keeping his swordsmanship on a level higher than most Jedi. Also stomping some of the most well trained warrior cults in history like Morgukai and Anzati.

I doubt the GI could reach Jinn's level. He was just a random temple guardsman iirc. Jinn was one of the greatest Jedi swordsman in history. He probably improved significantly between Order 66 and Rebels, but I'd still only say he's at Elite Mook status.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The OP's rather strict criteria allows for surprisingly few accolades, to be honest.