Obama to tutor Donald on how to run the US.

Originally posted by Surtur
Well you see I don't like to use blame. People have been talking about that. "Oh in 4 years so and so will say they didn't vote Trump".

Truth is, in 4 years no matter what happens people shouldn't have to be defending who they voted for. It's pointless. But if we're going to complain and try to point fingers, maybe the people who so spectacularly failed to listen?

But then you just illustrated the problem by just laughing that off lol. Oh well, it was silly of me to think people would try to understand why this happened.

Considering we have Trump fair-weather fans already distancing themselves when they were gloating on election night and Trump hasn't even been sworn in, I don't think Basher's claim is all that unreasonable. If anything, he might have been a bit conservative in his "in 4 years" claim. More like 14 months.

LoL dude, it's almost like you outright expect Trump to become one of the most hated and disastrous presidents in history and you're trying to proactively defend the decision you made.

I laughed because you voted for Trump and are blaming others in why Trump is president. You should really stand by your decisions instead of flipping all over the place, imo.

Originally posted by Robtard
Considering we have Trump fair-weather fans already distancing themselves when they were gloating on election night and Trump hasn't even been sworn in, I don't think Basher's claim is all that unreasonable. If anything, he might have been a bit conservative in his "in 4 years" claim. More like 14 months.

LoL dude, it's almost like you outright expect Trump to become one of the most hated and disastrous presidents in history and you're trying to proactively defend the decision you made.

I have said I am doing the wait and see thing with him. I also don't actually feel anyone should have to truly defend who they voted for.

I laughed because you voted for Trump and are blaming others from why Trump is president. You should really stand by your decisions instead of flipping all over the place, imo.

I never said I didn't stand by my decision though. What I said was I feel everyone played a role in this. I truly believe that, not because I feel I need to defend anything, and I'm not even saying that in a negative way. I think the people who didn't vote for Trump played their role in this because I feel some of their actions and behaviors might have spurned some folks to come out and vote Trump.

I stand 100% by my vote, and I always will. I'm just more or less trying to say one of the reasons he ended up winning was a failure to listen.

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay, but one thing we hear about a lot is the environment. Lets look at that for a second. I feel like the courts and stuff are very hard to predict.

So let us say Trump goes for broke and he pulls out of the whole Paris thing. Let's assume whoever follows up in his presidency intends to basically undo everything Trump does when it comes to environmental issues.

What would happen in terms of environmental impact in those 4 Trump years?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sure, but don't you think you should have been asking this question before you voted for him?

I'm more asking to try to understand just how badly some people feel this is going to get.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sure, but don't you think you should have been asking this question before you voted for him?

Short-sightedness is universal, and the knee-jerk reaction to modern American politics and the visceral desire for "Change!" always leads to unforeseen consequences. Trump got in on that ticket and even now, the realizations are settling in that he may not be remotely qualified to occupy the Office.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm more asking to try to understand just how badly some people feel this is going to get.

LoL Surt, you literally blamed the people who didn't support Trump for the Trump presidency, that's the blame-shifting I was referring to, which you'll already flipped on with "we're all responsible", what I mean about standing by your decisions.

Originally posted by Surtur
Since at the end of the day the real people who put Trump in the white house are all the ones who didn't vote for him, all the people who didn't pay attention to the other side. They let this happen.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm more asking to try to understand just how badly some people feel this is going to get.

However, you should probably be more worried about the growing list of radical right-wingers he's beginning to gather around him, people like Steve Bannon, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they attempted to use their congressional power to make secure Republican majorities in future elections, and other unconstitutional shit.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yes, he should have.

Short-sightedness is universal, and the knee-jerk reaction to modern American politics and the visceral desire for "Change!" always leads to unforeseen consequences. Trump got in on that ticket and even now, the realizations are settling in that he may not be remotely qualified to occupy the Office.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL Surt, you literally blamed the people who didn't support Trump for the Trump presidency, that's the blame-shifting I was referring to, which you'll already flipped on with "we're all responsible", what I mean about standing by your decisions.

I said at the end of the day I felt that. I didn't say it meant they solely and nobody else were responsible.

So once again: I'm standing by what I chose.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You're preemptively preparing your own defences for when Trump starts his decline--trying to establish a shield against the "See? What have you done?"s that are inevitably coming his voters' way.

I don't need to prepare a defense though. I'm merely pointing out that when people want to start whining about pointing fingers, there will be plenty to point them at.

I stand by my vote for Trump. But I constantly hear people saying silly shit here all the time about "you won't say you voted, you won't say you voted" as if people who voted for Trump did all this? Please, it's bullshit. Plain and simple. You can choose to dress that up as "you're just preparing a defense" but it doesn't make it any less true.

From the moment Trump got elected all some could talk about was how others are going to have to defend this vote, etc.

Originally posted by Surtur
I don't need to prepare a defense though. I'm merely pointing out that when people want to start whining about pointing fingers, there will be plenty to point them at.

I stand by my vote for Trump. But I constantly here people saying silly shit here all the time about "you won't say you voted, you won't say you voted" as if people who voted for Trump did all this? Please, it's bullshit. Plain and simple. You can choose to dress that up as "you're just preparing a defense" but it doesn't make it any less true.

From the moment Trump got elected all some could talk about was how others are going to have to defend this vote, etc.

Retroactively editing one's attitudes and beliefs is super easy, BTW. Hopefully if (when?) he starts f*cking up royally (even if the effects are only felt post-term), Trump voters with enough self-awareness can point to themselves and say "We put him in office" without simultaneously assigning blame to some other group.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well if we are considering some of the worst things that could happen we have things like ruining the planet's last chance to avert climate change disaster, pull out of NATO, cancel the Iran deal, roll back rights on abortion, gun control, maybe f*ck up the economy?, increase the national debt?

*note that's the deficit, not the federal debt.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
As you say.

Retroactively editing one's attitudes and beliefs is super easy, BTW. Hopefully if (when?) he starts f*cking up royally (even if the effects are only felt post-term), Trump voters with enough self-awareness can point to themselves and say "We put him in office" without simultaneously assigning blame to some other group.

But I don't need to edit anything. I will say it again so there is no confusion for people: yep, I believe at the end of the day his election was the result of those who failed to listen. Yes, obviously he also needs people to vote as well, nobody did this alone.

I think people do need to face the reasons this happened. But unlike you guys, I am not saying this will end in disaster. So I'm not trying to say this to you to try to defend Trump or so in the future I can say "gee well I told you so". I'm saying it because if people don't want this to happen again they need to know why it happened.

I'm standing by my choice, it's just I've already seen so many people so very concerned about what Trump voters will be saying and regretting and all this stuff. Just tells me people don't want to face why this happened.

Originally posted by Surtur
But I don't need to edit anything. I will say it again so there is no confusion for people: yep, I believe at the end of the day his election was the result of those who failed to listen. Yes, obviously he also needs people to vote as well, nobody did this alone.

I think people do need to face the reasons this happened. But unlike you guys, I am not saying this will end in disaster. So I'm not trying to say this to you to try to defend Trump or so in the future I can say "gee well I told you so". I'm saying it because if people don't want this to happen again they need to know why it happened.

I'm standing by my choice, it's just I've already seen so many people so very concerned about what Trump voters will be saying and regretting and all this stuff. Just tells me people don't want to face why this happened.

But if you want people to "listen" as you say, do them courtesy of doing the same. Listen to them. You've been quite keen to gloat, brag, and condescend recently. Do you really think that's the attitude people who don't agree with your positions appreciate? To lament that people don't listen leads to division and conflict, then to turn around and act like a smug jackass toward those very people... You can't ride the high horse while cutting its legs out from under you.

But christ we're just arguing about blame now. This is why I'd rather talk about the reasons this happened as opposed to just trying to blame any group.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Of course not, admitting we may be a part of the problem (personally a part, not just collectively) hurts pride and ego. And conceits. Better to point and blame.

But if you want people to "listen" as you say, do them courtesy of doing the same. Listen to them. You've been quite keen to gloat, brag, and condescend recently. Do you really think that's the attitude people who don't agree with your positions appreciate? To lament that people don't listen leads to division and conflict, then to turn around and act like a smug jackass toward those very people... You can't ride the high horse while cutting its legs out from under you.

But I'm not lamenting they aren't listening to me man. I just can't help just seeing that people don't seem to want to try to examine why this happened.

You are correct I do feel I can listen better, if people don't want to listen to me because I gloated fine, I just hope they don't ignore the overall situation.

Originally posted by Surtur
But christ we're just arguing about blame now. This is why I'd rather talk about the reasons this happened as opposed to just trying to blame any group.

If you can do it without emotional investment or holier-than-thouism, you'll get somewhere. But good luck conveying that in text form. On a public and politically divisive message board. This message board.

Originally posted by Surtur
But I'm not lamenting they aren't listening to me man. I just can't help just seeing that people don't seem to want to try to examine why this happened.

You are correct I do feel I can listen better, if people don't want to listen to me because I gloated fine, I just hope they don't ignore the overall situation.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Unfortunately in an election that involves two competing parties that appeal and market themselves toward specific groups of people, you can't "analyze" why without pinpointing those groups.

If you can do it without emotional investment or holier-than-thouism, you'll get somewhere. But good luck conveying that in text form. On a public and politically divisive message board. This message board.

I guess this makes sense, but we need to try to analyze in a way that isn't blame.

People are less likely to listen if you full on just go right into blame mode.

I would imagine it might even make some Trump voters less likely to come and speak out against some of the stuff he does because they think someone might just shame them for having voted for him in the first place.

Originally posted by Surtur
I said at the end of the day I felt that. I didn't say it meant they solely and nobody else were responsible.

So once again: I'm standing by what I chose.

And I as I said, it's like you're expecting Trump to bake us a turdpie and you're preemptively trying to shirk responsibility in why Trump is president despite being a Trump supporter/voter; while passing on the blame to people who didn't support/vote for Trump in why Trump is president. Very mature, that.

Originally posted by Robtard
And I as I said, it's like you're expecting Trump to bake us a turdpie and you're preemptively trying to shirk responsibility in why Trump is president despite being a Trump supporter/voter; while passing on the blame to people who didn't support/vote for Trump in why Trump is president. Very mature, that.

I don't know what to expect. I'm not trying to shirk anything. I wanted people to understand the reasons that lead to his win.

I also feel I don't have anything to even shirk. Good or bad Trump's choices are his own. Trying to shirk it would be just as bad as going "I told ya so" if he turned out to be a great president.

There's no singular reason in why he won, but you're literally trying to pass-the-buck already onto the people who didn't support/vote for him in why he won in the chance he ****s up you can wash your hands of it, despite supporting/voting for Trump.

Originally posted by Robtard
There's no singular reason in why he won, but you're literally trying to pass-the-buck already onto the people who didn't support/vote for him in why he won in the chance he ****s up you can wash your hands of it, despite supporting/voting for Trump.

I have said there are multiple reasons, I've also talked about what I feel played a major role.

But anyways, I don't think there is anything I or anyone else need to wash our hands of.