Originally posted by ILS
So, TPM Dooku > Siolo > Maul > Vader?You understand why that has to unravel at some point, right?
ANH Vader, who's factually a hell of a lot less than Anakin as a duelist. Or even Obi-Wan as of RotS.
Anyways, the scaling isn't anywhere near as concrete as you're suggesting. TPM Maul has five years on the one that fought Siolo, and against Vader, they were described by the Prophets as being "evenly matched" - presumably Maul's edge was through agility rather than skill.
He doesn't wield a lightsaber, nor is he a Jedi, and hadn't been one for 70 years. He's basically an anomaly from an old ass comic. Also, he did become better in solitude; that isn't up for dispute because it mentions his enlightenment in the comic. I don't have it on-hand, but it's in there.
That's fair.
So, I guess I'm saying that I don't think Dooku being tied for the second best Jedi swordsman really applies to a former-Jedi hermit with a wooden staff, who grew in power substantially since leaving the Order, and doesn't help prove Dooku can defeat a Maul who had gained 5 years of experience since losing to Siolo. Add in that it's an ancient comic which is from a dubiously canon line of comics, and has had one of it's major plot elements retconned by every other source... and I'm going to say this line of reasoning is impossible to reconcile for your argument.
While I'm all for Dooku being > all the other Jedi before him, I also don't see said Jedi being along Maul's lines, either.
Depends. KotOR Revan basically stomped Malak (if you factor in the circumstances), whilst KotOR II Exile beat Traya (who I hold to be around Savage Opress-level as a duelist) under some pretty negative circumstances.
As for accolades, Maul isn't lacking. He's constantly celebrated as being one of the most "skilled", "highly trained", "lethal", and "dangerous" Sith warriors in the history of the Order.
Dooku's one of the greatest dueling masters in the history of the galaxy. I don't think he's sitting below Maul at all.
He was trained by the most powerful Sith ever for 20 years, from infancy, for the purpose of being able to carry on the Rule of Two should he need to. Training which was 1,000 years more advanced than that of Bane's, meaning (to cut a long story short), Maul is likely to be better than Bane. And then you look at Bane's own absurd feats, and his accolade of being superior to every Sith preceding him.
I'm curious, but how much of a setback do you think Gravid destroying Sith knowledge was? It obviously wasn't a setback in terms of power, since Gean still killed and succeeded him, and since Darth Plagueis suggests that Gean's powers weren't diminished by her prostheses, her apprentice would've legitimately continued the Banite scaling by killing her.
I know not everyone subscribes to that line of thought, so another is that Maul was so important to Sidious that he:-Was concealed from Plagueis at Sidious' own peril
-Stolen from Talzin, despite Talzin being comparably powerful to Sidious, and having secrets of the Dark Side he coveted at the time, which she would now not share with him
-Constantly received praise from him on how flawless his blade technique is, even in Sidious' private musings, along with praise from Plagueis on his "astonishing" speed
Well, some of that refers to potential, which isn't applicable here.
And, Sidious didn't even think it possible that Maul could have survived his injuries in TPM, despite being the most knowledgeable and powerful Sith in history. Meaning, Maul's feat of surviving being bisected is unprecedented, as far as Sidious knows.
I think it has more to do with Sidious not expecting Maul to be able to survive it as opposed to thinking that it's impossible to survive. Your interpretation makes no sense considering relative nothings like Maw do the same.
Combine that with Maul's obvious stylistic advantages in a fight (all manners of physicality and his application of them with Juyo) and I don't see Jedi Dooku taking him.
The stylistic advantages bit is overblown. Dooku's (routinely?) sparred with physical superiors to Maul in Yoda.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Which I feel don't make much sense, but alright writers..
Probably due to his injuries, not training at all for 10+ years, not learning anything further from Palpatine, then going into hiding for 15+years.
But the fact that he picked himself back up each time and still improved on his previous prime speaks to that "classical Sith training" (as Witwer puts it) ingrained into him.
Originally posted by ILS
I think what's logical is Maul increasing all the time gradually, like everyone else, with some surges in power in between (surviving his bisection and festering his hatred on Lotho Minor being the first, and seeing Savage/Talzin die being the second).
True but like Vader, much of that increase in rage had to first compensate for his injuries before it started to make him more powerful than his previous prime.
Originally posted by ILS
Rebels > TCW > TPM.
Yeah probably, I just don't think it's a huge difference. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see Rebels Maul stomping TPM Maul, the way say ROTS Kenobi would stomp TPM Kenobi.
I personally see Rebels Maul winning with difficulty against TPM Maul and with a lot of difficulty against TCW Maul.
Originally posted by Petrus
He's actually stated to have increased in power from TPM to TCW, is he not? But yeah, I agree that it's not a very noticeable difference.
That's Legends now I believe. Not confirmed in the new Canon as of yet. Although the author of Shadow Conspiracy probably got notes from Filoni when writing the novel.
But yeah, either way, the massive rage boost had to compensate for his injuries first, so the end result was a more powerful Maul, but perhaps only slightly more powerful.