Morg(PC) vs Tutinax

Originally posted by Bentley
Except I already provided an instance of the exact same power working on a character powered by Galactus. We have zero reason to assume it constitutes a proper defense at this point. Feel free to cite an instance of actual resistance from Morg

They use different means to manipulate emotions. Not the same guy or the same power. Nice try though. Huh? You don't understand? Thor wasn't in a catatonic state, he was being hindered but still able to fight. Why in the world would Morg even need to fight up close? He simply flexed and blew the planet that he got the WOL from up.

Actually, the more that I think about it the more of a mismatch that this becomes. It would take at least 2 to 3 Tutinax level opponents for this to be even given how many Heralds it took to fight him.

If you are going to outright deny a character of the use of his abilities when faced with proof I don't think there is any point in arguing further really. Your claim was that the heralds were inmune to emotional manipulation and it was debunked, you then shifted goals claiming they'll be inmune to "any other" emotional manipulation is just intellectually dishonest because it's straight un impossible to prove.

Proof? What proof? You're using Psycho Man as an attempt to make an argument for Tutinax. I said that Tutinax's powers in no way stopped Thor from fighting. It didn't place him in a catatonic state where it allowed Tutinax to Tee-Off on Thor unanswered. Thor was still able to fight back. What I am now saying is that yes his powers may work on Morg, but they won't place him into a catatonic state due to the Power Cosmic's mitigating factors. Where does that leave us?

Morg cuts the bacon off his back.

Fear would keep Morg from making the smart choices and would certainly make it more difficult to push his versatility advantage as much as he otherwise could. Hesitation is also a terrible thing to do in the middle of a fight and it certainly hindered Thor greatly when he fought Tutinax

It's definitively not clear cut the exact consequences of this power in fight but in my opinion it'd turn a melee combat in favor for Tutinax

The smart choices? You mean like swinging his axe? An axe swing capable of cleaving planets in two. Show me where Tutinax's powers stopped Thor from fighting back. You have no point here.

Fear leads to hesitation and dulls reflexes which is exactly what happened to Thor when he faced Tutinax. He was literally unable to look straight at Tutinax and the deviant got the better of him despite mjolnir in melee. And when they got their second round with Thor knowing the fate of the universe was at stake... He still fell to Tutinax

Originally posted by Bentley
And when they got their second round with Thor knowing the fate of the universe was at stake... He still fell to Tutinax

Originally posted by Bentley
Fear leads to hesitation and dulls reflexes which is exactly what happened to Thor when he faced Tutinax. He was literally unable to look straight at Tutinax and the deviant got the better of him despite mjolnir in melee. And when they got their second round with Thor knowing the fate of the universe was at stake... He still fell to Tutinax

Show me one time that Morg showed fear. As a mortal he rushed headlong at a being that he knew had enough power to shatter his world. What did Morg fear? He didn’t hesitate to nullify Ttrant even when he knew that the process would’ve possibly ended him. He single handily fought every Herald that Galactus had created at that period in time, and was going to kill them all. Still no signs of fear. What fear are you talking about that would paralyze Morg? You’re looking at Thor who has a shit ton on concern for human life. Morg simply didn’t give a phuck about anything other than finding new planets for Galactus, and enjoying the thoughts of multitudes of sentient being being devoured.

I'm trying to make the argument that Tutinax's power will work just like they did agains Thor who was actually resisting.

The problem on asking whether Morg has felt fear or not is that we look at his capacity of overcoming fear as opposite to him being uncaring of consequences. Because in this instance fear will be forced into him and the fact of not giving a phuck might just actually make the fear work all that much better. When Wraith made the Phallanx feel fear for the same time they were entirely unable to overcome it. So there is even a chance Morg becomes more crippled than Thor did.

But ultimately I know we cannot prove whether Morg fought off fear or was just a sociopath about it, so I'm not going to make a clear cut stance on the subject. For me having Tutinax's abilities working as they had in the past seems the more fair outcome based in the evidence presented.

You realize that Morg never even has to get within range of Tutinax right? Let's say that since both opponents begin with working knowledge of each other that he decides to spam planet destroying cosmic blasts at him with that axe of his. When does Tutinax have time to do anything. In character Morg is a merciless executioner unlike Thor who typically opts to subdue his opponent over straight out killing them or teleporting them into the nearest black hole. I don't believe that Tutinax actually has the might to defeat Morg head on, but nothing stops Morg from ending this from a distance. You realize that during the last appearances of Morg, that he was actually able to go toe to toe with Thanos? This actually made sense since he was able to route all of those Heralds. That is above Tutinax's weight class.

People used to believe that Ghost Riders Penance Stare would turn Thanos into a wet noodle, but as I argued before it ever happened, he actually enjoyed it. In my opinion, fear of something has to actually exist in that person in order for it to work on them, and Morg appeared to be fearless. As I said, he attempted to attack Galactus a giant before he ever had any powers, despite full knowledge that he could have simply stepped on him. I believe that the fear powers would work albeit that there would be some mitigating factors due to the Power Cosmic, but for the most part, Morg would be nearly immune to it due to his base psychological makeup. As I mentioned in terms of the fight or flight response, Morg lacked the latter. This citing on the character holds a lot of weight that can't be simply waived away.

Morg is his physical superior. Morg is more powerful. Morg lacks fear of death, or the loss of his life or that of others. Morg was able to fight pretty evenly with Thanos.

In my opinion, he would absolutely destroy Tutinax.

I did bring an example of entities without fear that become useless after feeling fear, so how would that go is not clear cut. It doesn't necessarily mean it'll be worse nor that they'll fare better, we just don't know, but for the thread's purpose I think it shouldn't be the defining factor.

As I mentioned earlier fear can lead to making bad decisions so Morg who should by all means keep his distance might not do so, also due to his personality he might've the inclination to duke it out and that's where I believe Tutinax has an edge. He's at least as strong as Thor weilding his hammer with full motivation so whether that outclasses Morg or not might come to perceptions of the two characters.

If you think Morg trounces Thor casually in a physical contest then I get how you'd see Morg having a clear physical edge, in which case you're free to have that opinion I don't have particular objection to that at this point in time.

The problem with your example is that you attempted to omit a relevant character with an irrelevant one. Psycho Man can not be used as any sort of evidence for Tutinax. The difference between them isn't a guesstimate, it's right on panel. We are no longer on the if it would work on Morg portion of the arguement, we are well past that. Let's move on and away from Psycho Man.

What we are arguing is how effective his fear emotion manipulative powers would work on a proven to be fearless character ready in an instant to jump to his death. The deepest embedded emotion known to humans is the urge to evade ones imminent death to the degree that it at times looks heroic. Well yeah, Morg lacked that response. Psychologically speaking, there was no fear response in the form of flight present within Morg. None. Can you draw water from a place that is absolutely devoid of moisture? Of course not.

So now that we've used on panel citations to emphasise the differences between Morg, and the very relevant Thor encounter with Tutinax, we should be able to move away from Tutinax's powers having any effect on Morg, because as I said, Morg to my recollection hasn't even one showing to draw upon the conclusion that his brain was capable of processing the fear response that a normal brain would. A Psychologist would immediately believe that he had a damaged brain. In his case it would be the amygdala portion.

Since we are no longer at that stage in this discussion, we should be exploring how the physically Low to Mid Herald level character known as Tutinax would do against the High Herald to Mid Trans character known as Morg. Let's face it, if Tutinax wasn't actively hindering Thor, he would've gotten his ass kicked in.

Wait do I have grounds to call Morg a Mid Trans level character? Absolutely, because we are using base Power Cosmic Morg, and the amplified Morg with the Power Cosmic and Water's of Life. In my opinion, Tutinax wouldn't even defeat the base version, so there's no need to delve into deeper water, by wondering how well he'd do against the amplified version of Morg.

Originally posted by Stoic
Let's face it, if Tutinax wasn't actively hindering Thor, he would've gotten his ass kicked in.

That's why we spend time mainly talking about this ability working because it clearly helps him climb tiers.

Originally posted by Stoic
Wait do I have grounds to call Morg a Mid Trans level character? Absolutely, because we are using base Power Cosmic Morg, and the amplified Morg with the Power Cosmic and Water's of Life. In my opinion, Tutinax wouldn't even defeat the base version, so there's no need to delve into deeper water, by wondering how well he'd do against the amplified version of Morg.

I do not thnk Tutinax beats amped Morg, he'd need to have a massive glass jaw for that to happen and as far as I recall from that arc nothing suggest he has it.

As far as Morg being absolutely unable to experience fear I would need concrete proof of this claim as we already know being a herald of Galactus doesn't provide night inability to feel. Him not shown any fear in his showing is not quite enough because absence of proof is not proof of absence, and iit sounds like just an opinion in the best of cases.

I'd like to hear the impressions on other posters on whether Morg should be affected by Tutinax's abilities or not.

Would you like me to PM you a site that you could go to to find out? Like I stated, there is no example in his appearance to show that he feared anything. I gave you examples. I'll PM you the site, it may have the older Silver Surfer issues of Morg's first apperances through to his death. I know that his first apperance was before the Herald Ordeal arc, which was Silver Surfer #75 of vol. 2 I believe? Anyway let me PM you the site so that you can see what I mean about Morgs psychological profile. He was absolutely fearless. That was the difference between Morg and Norrin. Norrin could be baited with his past love for Zenn-La and Shalla Bal, Morg on the other hand loved executing anything that breathed.

Originally posted by Bentley
I do not thnk Tutinax beats amped Morg, he'd need to have a massive glass jaw for that to happen and as far as I recall from that arc nothing suggest he has it.

No he isn't he simply needs time to review why my opinion of Morg is so high concerning emotional manipulation. There is cleary something wrong, or abnormal about Morg's psychological makeup. There has to be when he plunges headlong into a battle with a being billions of times more powerful than him without hesitating.