Originally posted by SunRazer
Based on what, if I may ask?And that's enough to circumvent Dooku's edge over him as a swordsman?
Based on superior showing and accolades across the board, I'd say. Altering the fall of an ISD, creating virtual telekinetic hurricanes, casually doing away with AT-ST's, crushing flying TIE fighters, and virtually atomizing armored beings, among a massive list of others things.
As for th dueling edge, it isn't a big one from the get-go. We know Galen virtually "perfected" lightsaber combat, and he is a "near" unstoppable combatant. We also know he is a high level master of several forms of lightsaber combat do to his mastery of Juyo, and as far as feats go, he has fought through virtual armies of high level combatants, and bested the likes of Darth Vader in singles competition.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
We know Galen virtually "perfected" lightsaber combat, and he is a "near" unstoppable combatant. We also know he is a high level master of several forms of lightsaber combat do to his mastery of Juyo,
Not getting into your little debate with Razer, just pointing out that using accolades that Rey and Sirak have isn't exactly the way to go if you wanna argue Galen is a good enough duelist to contend with Dooku.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Galen wasn't really single tbh, he just kissed Juno.
Wat? xD
Originally posted by MythLord
Not getting into your little debate with Razer, just pointing out that using accolades that Rey and Sirak have isn't exactly the way to go if you wanna argue Galen is a good enough duelist to contend with Dooku.
Also, Rey being great with a staff, is hardly comparable to mastering a lightsaber anyhow.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
The foundation of a house, isn't the reason one wants to make it there home. Translation: that little tidbit of information, was meant to just set the tone for the discussion, and prove where Galen is meant to be on a holistic level, not the actual crux of the argument. Let down your Dooku boner for a second, sweetheart.
Yeah, that's fair, but not something I'd against someone like Dooku. You should just get to the good stuff that actually puts him on Tyranus' tier.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Also, Rey being great with a staff, is hardly comparable to mastering a lightsaber anyhow.
The TFA visual guide says her skills with the staff(described as "perfected"😉 transfer directly into her adapting to any other melee weapon(lightsaber included). I doubt she perfected any technique, but holistically it means she's a force to be reckoned with 'cause innate talent and sh!t...
Also, I give you constructive criticism, you insult me and then wonder why "debating is dead". Having "discussions" with you people in this manner eventually gets dull.
Originally posted by MythLord
[BThe TFA visual guide says her skills with the staff(described as "perfected"😉 transfer directly into her adapting to any other melee weapon(lightsaber included). I doubt she perfected any technique, but holistically it means she's a force to be reckoned with 'cause innate talent and sh!t...
[/B]
They should have just wrote innate skill/talent and leave the staff completely out of it tbh.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Based on superior showing and accolades across the board, I'd say. Altering the fall of an ISD, creating virtual telekinetic hurricanes, casually doing away with AT-ST's, crushing flying TIE fighters, and virtually atomizing armored beings, among a massive list of others things.
Not sure if the last few feats are beyond Dooku's caliber. The first two are maximum effort showings, as I recall, whereas Dooku's showings are usually done with little effort. And if we take the cruisers on Korriban to be 215m in length (which is the maximum possible length for those ships), then I'd argue that Dooku's feat on Korriban rivals any of those.
Also, which superior Force accolades are we talking about for Galen?
As for th dueling edge, it isn't a big one from the get-go. We know Galen virtually "perfected" lightsaber combat, and he is a "near" unstoppable combatant. We also know he is a high level master of several forms of lightsaber combat do to his mastery of Juyo, and as far as feats go, he has fought through virtual armies of high level combatants, and bested the likes of Darth Vader in singles competition.
Galen got his "perfected" accolade as of the time he fought Rahm Kota, which makes me inclined to believe that it's being used very loosely. Mastery of multiple forms is all well and good but we know Dooku is better than duelists who boast the same thing. I believe Grievous has the "unstoppable" accolade and Dooku beats him routinely - often with ease as well.
Vader in two years' time was still only a match for Ben Kenobi, who's a pale shadow of RotS Obi-Wan (somebody noticeably inferior to Dooku). So actually, the gap between Vader and Dooku at this point as far as swordsmanship goes is quite considerable. To my understanding, Galen beat Vader with the assistance of Dun Moch and Vader's recklessness as well, which casts more doubt over the showing, not to mention that Vader could've improved - even if only slightly - in the two years between then and ANH.
Nah. The ISD feat left him exhausted but causing a ground-quake and an artificial hurricane was simply him employing a continuous force blast that he wasn't even winded from after.
And this was prior to his fight with Shaak Ti btw.
I'm sure you would agree he grew substantially in between that period and his fight with Vader. Especially given the fact that Kota was matching him in the Force just weeks before.
Honestly there's no contest. His casual feats are blasting back possibly thousands of droids pre prime, buckling docks with casual force pushes, knocking aside Imperial armies with gestures and blasting back hundreds of droids with an intake of power AFTER guiding down an ISD.
Even taking those ships Dooku manipulated at 215 meters doesn't compare when we consider that was on a Darkside nexus and Galen's already pulling off comparable feats before his prime and superior feats when focused.
And? The depiction of their fight makes it clear that they're around par as Force users. How well Rahm did against Galen is a testament to his skill and not something that can be used to delegitimize the quotes regarding Galen's skill.
Vader was far superior to Ben. It's noted that he fought cautiously because of what happened on Mustafar but that's it. And Ben had grown more powerful so a degradation in skill wouldn't nessecarily lower his standing as a ligtsaber combatant. It certainly didn't for Vader who was confirmed numerous times to have surpassed Anakin in power and logically in technical skill confirming his superiority over Dooku by a solid margin.
Your understanding is flawed. The only Dun Moch in the fight favored Vader as Galen's failed attempt only empowered and enraged Vader allowing him to land his first blow on Galen in the entire fight. Galen begins to gain the advantage over Vader because he realizes emotions like hate and bitterness are meaningless and would only make him like Vader. There was no mention of Vader being reckless or taking reckless actions that left him exposed.
Anything else or have things been cleared up sufficiently for you? 🙂
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Nah. The ISD feat left him exhausted but causing a ground-quake and an artificial hurricane was simply him employing a continuous force blast that he wasn't even winded from after.
Fair enough. Ground quakes are pretty insubstantial, btw. How big was the hurricane?
Honestly there's no contest. His casual feats are blasting back possibly thousands of droids pre prime, buckling docks with casual force pushes, knocking aside Imperial armies with gestures and blasting back hundreds of droids with an intake of power AFTER guiding down an ISD.
Where does he knock aside armies with gestures?
Even taking those ships Dooku manipulated at 215 meters doesn't compare when we consider that was on a Darkside nexus and Galen's already pulling off comparable feats before his prime and superior feats when focused.
The amp wasn't very considerable. That aside, Dooku was throwing the ships hard enough to reduce them to fragments on impact, and he was doing so very easily. Most of Galen's feats that you mentioned before aren't better.
And? The depiction of their fight makes it clear that they're around par as Force users. How well Rahm did against Galen is a testament to his skill and not something that can be used to delegitimize the quotes regarding Galen's skill.
What's this in response to? The fact that Galen got his accolade as of the Kota fight? It's proof that "perfect" is being used very loosely, since Kota is nowhere near perfect as a swordsman. Not even Dooku, Yoda or Sidious are.
Vader was far superior to Ben. It's noted that he fought cautiously because of what happened on Mustafar but that's it. And Ben had grown more powerful so a degradation in skill wouldn't nessecarily lower his standing as a ligtsaber combatant.
lol Ben's flat-out stated to have been slowed, been out of practice, and a mere shadow of what he was before. Yes, his standing was lowered - considerably. There's no way around it.
His power growth was never suggested to be anything substantial - it wasn't even noticeable to Vader, whereas Vader immediately sensed Ben's deteriorating in dueling. Your case has absolutely no basis.
It certainly didn't for Vader who was confirmed numerous times to have surpassed Anakin in power and logically in technical skill confirming his superiority over Dooku by a solid margin.
He's confirmed all of one time (the rest were his opinion, and he naturally views Anakin with disdain) to be more powerful than Anakin, and that's in a mastered sense, not a raw sense (which is what factors into dueling). Secondly, Vader's also confirmed to be lesser than Anakin in dueling, but I'm not interested in discussing Anakin with you again, lol.
Your understanding is flawed. The only Dun Moch in the fight favored Vader as Galen's failed attempt only empowered and enraged Vader allowing him to land his first blow on Galen in the entire fight. Galen begins to gain the advantage over Vader because he realizes emotions like hate and bitterness are meaningless and would only make him like Vader. There was no mention of Vader being reckless or taking reckless actions that left him exposed.Anything else or have things been cleared up sufficiently for you? 🙂
The novelization directly confirms that he managed to strike a nerve in Vader, with his intent being to undermine Vader's concentration. The actual dueling was repeatedly interrupted by Force attacks as well. It wasn't a genuine showing of skill advantage.
But I've also learned not to debate you on TFU. 🙂
This was all in response to Deronn, anyway. I'm waiting for his response.