Originally posted by ILS
I said I would tomorrow, but I'm gonna do it now.So as we established, this is a strawman. "Every single time" isn't the same as not being probable. I'm arguing for probable.
Firstly, I was making my own stance, which is that I don't believe it'll happen every time they clash blades. If you want to argue that it's probable, good for you.
Or Dooku's age caught up with him
You know, there is a thing called augmentation which has the potential to overcome the infirmities of age. Kind of what Yoda does a lot.
And before you blatantly misrepresent this as well, no, I'm not saying Dooku's augmentation is on par with Yoda's.
, and those two much younger fighters have demonstrated their superior strength?
You mean in spite of Dooku repeatedly proving in the same episode that he was stronger than Ventress? Right.
Like I said, maybe Dooku not being perfect is a thing idk????So please Nova. I'm enthralled. Elucidate on why Dooku - not Savage - not only got himself into a "bad position", but also on how it's NAWT HIS FAWLT OKEY DOOKU PEFECT
Way to set up a strawman. In no way did I ever insinuate that Dooku was perfect or flawless. Nowhere did I suggest that power blows weren't a problem for him.
Perfect? Your mental condition is perfectly eluding the psychologists, you ****ing brick.
It tells me he ran out of ideas and opted not to get cut in half.
You countered your own post for me."he" - f*cking Dooku the man himself
positioned "himself" - no, the government didn't do it, climate change didn't do it, Lucas didn't do it, f*cking Dooku did it
poorly.
Also? Why do you think it might be that Dooku was in a bad position? Hmm?
https://youtu.be/7s3x8ox2ToE?t=1m16s
Could it be that every time Savage tried to hack him in half he moved back. Moving back being an uncomfortable way to fight at the best of times due to the liability of basic human motor skills? You know, how we're designed not to walk the way our f*cking eyes aren't looking??????
Maybe your eyes aren't ****ing looking at the page. I said if the circumstances repeat themselves, then Savage will indeed do the same thing to Dooku. Whether he forces Dooku into such a position here isn't what I'm arguing, you pillock. I'm saying that without the positioning, the momentum, etc, Savage isn't doing the same to Dooku. That's why I went on about "every strike".
And poor position? Really? What was wrong with it? The ground was flat. I didn't see any old-bastard magnets in the vicinity. And when Dooku went for his flight I saw plenty of air-time before he actually came into contact with a wall.
What's wrong with his position? The fact that it didn't allow him to keep dodging Savage's blows, maybe? Or do you think he suddenly developed amnesia and decided to break away from the dodging and go for meeting Savage's strength head-on? ****ing cement mixer.
Hitting thin air multiple times in a row combined with walking forwards. The most efficient momentum builder in the history of martial arts. How revolutionary and unique and unfair. Poor Dooku.
He starts with a leaping attack, then does a huge sweep immediately after that. The next few strikes just continue to build momentum. Regardless, he is building momentum.
Better than being cut in half, clearly, hence why he did it. But sans your fictional parameters of "NOT DOOKU FAWLT BAD POSITION OKEY", what other options are available to him? Dodging infinitely? Meeting his blows at a glancing angle, which is not only dangerous but a huge tax on his stamina?
Are you warming up somebody else's brain for them?
I wasn't referring to that instance, clearly. I was saying that in general (ie. in this thread's fictional battle scenario), Dooku wouldn't be smart if he just decided to meet Savage's strength to no end.
The thing I love most about this discussion is that I don't even disagree with anything you're saying. It's just a case of working with you until you realise whose argument you've been supporting the entire time. Tip: not your own.
In other words, you've finally caught on with the fact that I'm not actually disagreeing with you on a lot of these points?
Supporting arguments? I was making my own stance on the matter and you decided to treat it as an attack on you, lol. Little did you know that I wasn't doing that, because, shocker, I actually wasn't targeting and attacking your points specifically.
So your evidence that Dooku will be able to consistently meet Savage's blade without his stamina or balance flagging, is that he managed to lose to Yoda in 40 seconds? Savage who has already sent him flying, opposed to Yoda who didn't? And I know how much you love using the novel/junior novel, so before you do, I'll remind you that on top of Yoda possibly holding back, and not at all being a strength-based fighter (which is what taxes Dooku's strength most quickly, not light fast strikes), he spent the all of the beginning of the duel fighting only defensively. When he went on the offensive, guess who lost?So again, to sum up in perfectly simple terms:
Savage - not Yoda. Yoda - not Savage.
Losing - not very good evidence to use.
Totally agreed Nova, totally agreed. And I like the enthusiasm.
Man, and the momentum by itself was enough, wasn't it? Poor Dooku.
I'm talking about the saberlock at the end of the duel, you ****ing psychological mystery.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE SOMETIMES YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE WHEN SOMEONE IS SWINGING A LIGHTSABER AT YOU NOVA STOP
There's a choice between dodging it from the onset or trying to deflect the blow from the onset to stop the building of momentum. If Dooku alternates between the two, he might have a better chance of staying on his feet.
I DIDN'T
Then don't attack my post when that was my only ****ing point.
THEN EAT YOUR GODDAMN MEDICINE NOVA BECAUSE THE "CONSEQUENCE" IN QUESTION IS ANOTHER TRIP TO F*CKING WALL-LANDLMAOWHAT THE HELL IS THIS
THEY DON'T MAKE DEBATERS LIKE THIS ANY MORE
NO SIR
They don't make debaters who don't even understand your stance and go straight for mockery despite completely misrepresenting your stance, indeed. Looks like you've taken a trip to wall-land with your head.
Originally posted by ILS
IF AOTC KENOBI CAN RENDER IT OBSOLETE I WONDER HOW THE F*CK SAVAGE IS GOING TO DO. I BET HE'S IN A WORLD OF FRIGGING TROUBLE, WHAT WITH ALL THAT EXPERIENCE HE HAD WITH LIGHTNING AND THE TIME HE HAD TO REFLECT ON IT AND IT BEING SOMETHING A DARK JEDI LIKE VENTRESS CAN FIGURE OUT AND GEE I WONDER IF MAUL TOLD HIM AND I WONDER WHY THE WRITERS HAD SAVAGE BLOCKING IT IN A SCENE THAT WAS ANIMATED TO A DEGREE AND RELEASED TO US AND IS THIS ACTUALLY REALLY DIFFICULT OR SOMETHING I DON'T F*CKING GET IT BUT I'M WAITING WITH BAITED BREATH FOR YOUR NEXT POST NOVA LET'S HEAR IT BUDDY
Are you ****ing retarded? I agreed with you on Savage being able to block Lightning, you stupid thick *****. You asked me if Savage can also "learn from his mistakes and finally block lightning" and I said "why not?"
I DON'T KNOW WHAT "WHY NOT?" MEANS OVER THERE IN SCOTLAND, BUT **** ME, YOUNG POMMY.
You're so caught up in mockery that you don't even understand my ****ing stance.
Bated breath? Bated constipation. I'm ****ing shitting myself right now at the thickness of that wall you call a head.
Lightsabers are established in a range of sources as having momentum. Also, they're not completely weightless, only the blade is.
Although the weightlessness of the blade actually means that its force would be partly derived from Savage's own momentum, wouldn't it? With Savage moving forwards.
EDIT: Apparently some canon source says that lightsabers are difficult to wield because they gather momentum so quickly. I don't have any of the canon sources, though, so I'd need somebody else to confirm.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Lightsabers are established in a range of sources as having momentum. Also, they're not completely weightless, only the blade is.Although the weightlessness of the blade actually means that its force would be partly derived from Savage's own momentum, wouldn't it? With Savage moving forwards.
EDIT: Apparently some canon source says that lightsabers are difficult to wield because they gather momentum so quickly. I don't have any of the canon sources, though, so I'd need somebody else to confirm.
Originally posted by SunRazerYes I'm sure they are, now what about b?
Lightsabers are established in a range of sources as having momentum. Also, they're not completely weightless, only the blade is.Although the weightlessness of the blade actually means that its force would be partly derived from Savage's own momentum, wouldn't it? With Savage moving forwards.
EDIT: Apparently some canon source says that lightsabers are difficult to wield because they gather momentum so quickly. I don't have any of the canon sources, though, so I'd need somebody else to confirm.
I addressed that. The blade gets momentum from Savage's own due to its weightlessness, which means it gets some forward momentum. Ie. head-on with Dooku.
I mean, Savage wasn't necessarily doing something that much different from your typical lightsaber wielder, who is generating lots of momentum all the same (which you agreed with).
Not sure how that addresses anything, you said that Savage would build momentum by swinging his blade back and forth, I'm asking how that is physically possible when he was reversing the direction of the blade each time.
Not really interested in discussing whether a lightsaber wielder can generate momentum at all, but rather your claim that he was generating more than usual.
Generating more than usual is because Dooku decided not to intercept Savage's blows at any point until the end. In ordinary lightsaber fights, people meet each other's blades all the time, which nullifies the momentum. In this one, Savage got time to keep swinging around, which kept building up momentum without it "resetting" from a blade clash, if you will. Dooku only decided to engage Savage once his position was poor enough to keep him from continuing to dodge. That was his mistake.
What I meant from him learning his lesson was to actually intercept Savage's blades to try to deflect the blows, and alternate between doing that and dodging the strikes. That way, he isn't taxed as much as just clashing blades with Savage, and he's not allowing Savage to build up momentum freely. It's not a good scenario, but it's the best he can do here (other than try to spam Lightning to break Savage's momentum). His positioning can still end up going to shit here, as well, of course.
Lmfao I'm aware of your ****ing point Nova. I'm pointing out why it is problematic.
Let me explain this in simpler terms: if you drive a car forward and the engine suddenly switches off, the generated forward momentum would keep it moving. However? If you put the breaks on that car and proceeded to drive backward, that forward momentum would be nullified.
Or in other words, if Savage swings his blade one way, yes, that will generate momentum, but if he then stops to swing it the other way, that momentum should be nullified, because he's moving it in the reverse direction, and so on, and so on.
Or in other words, Savage shouldn't have generated any culmative motion at all, not when he's moving in alternating directions.
Savage himself isn't moving in different directions, the blade is. But I'm saying that since the blade is weightless, it'll probably be mostly carrying Savage's own momentum anyway.
Which is why lightsaber wielders are able to generate a lot of momentum even though there's plenty of fighting styles that involve swinging the lightsaber in numerous directions. Although I do admit Savage wasn't precisely using any typical lightsaber style and was sort of just swinging erratically.