Hercules vs. Captain Marvel (Billy )

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, depends on how you view rival. cm/supes are rivals when they go head-to-head sure, but by feats supes is WELL above marvel. the same would likely be the case were superman in marvel and fought hulk, or thor. head-to-head they would likely be very close (as they appeared to be in the avengers/jla) but by feats it's not close (at least with thor). depends on where you place more stock--direct battles between them, or extraneous feats. i'd contend that if they fought directly there would be almost no difference between cm and herc (similar to thor and cm in dc vs marvel--the best, most accurately depicted battle in that silly series imo) in terms of strength even though cm likely has better feats (though holding the heavens is a good one....)

of course the OP says no other powers, but now he says cm has his speed so that would be enough advantage to give cm a vast majority, so, meh.

Originally posted by zopzop
It was Mortal Hercules and he was fighting Storm and a few others. She blasted him with lightening and he just laughed it off saying "[b] I'm a bit surprised, myself. But now that I think about it...what moron would try to tame the son of Zeus with fire from heaven? My father IS the lightning!"
Here we go, Hercules Spider Island -
http://tinyurl.com/jpawotc

[/B]

....ermmnone

Maybe it's magic lightning that hurts him.

If only we had that.

Originally posted by Galan007

....ermmnone

Eh, wut? The scans I posted = the same scene: Thor zapping Herc.

Zeus had nothing to do with Thor's lightning attack there -- he simply refused to stop it. He wanted Herc to get smacked down. 👆

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, depends on how you view rival. cm/supes are rivals when they go head-to-head sure, but by feats supes is WELL above marvel. the same would likely be the case were superman in marvel and fought hulk, or thor. head-to-head they would likely be very close (as they appeared to be in the avengers/jla) but by feats it's not close (at least with thor). depends on where you place more stock--direct battles between them, or extraneous feats. i'd contend that if they fought directly there would be almost no difference between cm and herc (similar to thor and cm in dc vs marvel--the best, most accurately depicted battle in that silly series imo) in terms of strength even though cm likely has better feats (though holding the heavens is a good one....)

of course the OP says no other powers, but now he says cm has his speed so that would be enough advantage to give cm a vast majority, so, meh.

It actually was a good showing for herc because iirc and do correct me if im wrong herc had Thor at his mercy a panel earlier

yeah, thor was going down because of herc's superior skill, but thor always has the lightning. masterson thor has also put herc down with lightning at least twice.

newer showings are typically more valid zop, but in this case, since it's only happened the one time, it may just have been a one-time deal decided on by that writer. that's why i for one would need to see it happen again before calling it valid. it does make some sense though. wish someone would have thought of that sooner and made it stick.

But Hercules was affected by Storm's lightning. I guess since he wasn't koed or killed this is a good feat?

Billy.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, depends on how you view rival. cm/supes are rivals when they go head-to-head sure, but by feats supes is WELL above marvel. the same would likely be the case were superman in marvel and fought hulk, or thor. head-to-head they would likely be very close (as they appeared to be in the avengers/jla) but by feats it's not close (at least with thor). depends on where you place more stock--direct battles between them, or extraneous feats. i'd contend that if they fought directly there would be almost no difference between cm and herc (similar to thor and cm in dc vs marvel--the best, most accurately depicted battle in that silly series imo) in terms of strength even though cm likely has better feats (though holding the heavens is a good one....)

of course the OP says no other powers, but now he says cm has his speed so that would be enough advantage to give cm a vast majority, so, meh.

Thor and Hercules are a level below Superman and Cap in strength.

Originally posted by abhilegend
They did not appear close in JLA/Avengers at all. Superman straight up overpowered Thor in terms of strength. That does not occurs between peers.

Thor and Hercules are a level below Superman and Cap in strength.

There's no way this can end in anything but a civil and respectful discussion. vin

Yeah, no shit. Havent seen a good abhi Superman related thread derailment this year...

Hercules will hand it to him if marvel goes for a slugfest. But Hercules is quite limited. Lightning should put this to an advantage towards marvel

Originally posted by abhilegend
They did not appear close in JLA/Avengers at all. Superman straight up overpowered Thor in terms of strength. That does not occurs between peers.

Thor and Hercules are a level below Superman and Cap in strength.

i actually have no issue with saying superman is above herc and thoir. by feats though, he is also well above marvel, and he is the one being discussed. i agree herc/thor and cm are all at ww level, as has been mostly born out in appearances. that said, my initial point stands--this would be enormously close using just strength. all powers in cm wins.

Originally posted by abhilegend
They did not appear close in JLA/Avengers at all. Superman straight up overpowered Thor in terms of strength. That does not occurs between peers.

Thor and Hercules are a level below Superman and Cap in strength.

Overpowered? Scans. Also, didn't Thor at one point fight both Superman and Martian Manhunter and held his own?

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, depends on how you view rival. cm/supes are rivals when they go head-to-head sure, but by feats supes is WELL above marvel. the same would likely be the case were superman in marvel and fought hulk, or thor. head-to-head they would likely be very close (as they appeared to be in the avengers/jla) but by feats it's not close (at least with thor). depends on where you place more stock--direct battles between them, or extraneous feats. i'd contend that if they fought directly there would be almost no difference between cm and herc (similar to thor and cm in dc vs marvel--the best, most accurately depicted battle in that silly series imo) in terms of strength even though cm likely has better feats (though holding the heavens is a good one....)

of course the OP says no other powers, but now he says cm has his speed so that would be enough advantage to give cm a vast majority, so, meh.

On that note - I'm willing to bet [at least, until they try to push Shazam/Black Adam for the movie and depending on which way, maybe], that Superman will be consistently portrayed as physically superior to Shazam, and only magic shortening the gap. I think the emphasis on magic [see New 52] for the Shazam family will only get more pronounced, and they will stray away a bit from the 'physical powerhouses' that they were portrayed before [i.e. WWIII].

I mean, just a few examples:
Pre-Flashpoint Superman has beaten Flashpoint Captain Marvel [along with the rest of the Justice League] conclusively.
Ultraman [basically evil Superman] has beaten Black Adam rather fiercely.
DCEU Online trailer shows Superman brutalizing Black Adam, again, conclusively.
New52 Superman seemed to be the favorite against Captain Marvel once he got serious, and the general portrayal in-Universe is that he is the strongest, by far.
etc.

I think the pendulum started swinging the more ground Wonder Woman started to gain - I don't think she will ever, from now on, be portrayed as inferior to Shazam/Black Adam in strength. Some of it may be due to her status as 'most prominent female symbol in DC', some of it maybe be because her origin was literally defined as 'as strong/stronger than Hercules' [which Captain Marvel is by definition the equal of] which, as Kurt Busiek alluded in a forum, should put her higher than him, but the main point is, the hierarchy in strength, I think is moving more towards:

Superman
~definite gap~
Wonder Woman >= Captain Marvel~Black Adam [also ~Thor/Hercules, if you want to include Marvel]

But, back to the thread, even if they're rough peers in strength, Captain Marvel is still much faster, and much more durable, than Hercules.

DC Hercules already lost to Captain Marvel and DC Herc > Marvel so....

DC Hercules already lost to Captain Marvel and DC Herc > Marvel so....

@phil:

Wonder Woman >= Captain Marvel~Black Adam [also ~Thor/Hercules, if you want to include Marvel]

But, back to the thread, even if they're rough peers in strength, Captain Marvel is still much faster, and much more durable, than Hercules.

i agree 100% with the bulk of your post, especially the first part of what i quoted. 👆

as for the thread--it was initially no powers except strength (and i assumed durability for cm) so speed wasn't an issue. with it in play it is def cm's fight. i agree cm has the durability advantage, but i'd still take herc in fight a without speed because i think he's more skilled. be close though.