Originally posted by Silent Master
DS might have better piercing durability feats, but Cap has far better blunt and energy durability feats.
Slade survived an entire ship exploding around him while he had an arrow in his eye. One of his henchmen got hit and run over by a van and was completely fine. Roy had a steel tower grid (sorry don't know what it's called) fall on his back and he was fine. Energy durability won't matter because noone packs energy weapons in this fight.
Originally posted by FrothByte
He dual wielded as Slade Wilson back in the island, but you're right, as Deathstroke he only ever used 1 sword. Cap didn't exactly do that much fending off of Rhodey's baton. He blocked it once and kicked Rhodey then the baton broke. Other times he fought opponents with longer weapons was vs. Loki and Rumlow... and he got tagged in those fights. Granted, there were other factors in those fights, but the point I'm raising is that Cap isn't unhittable. He's going to get tagged by DS whether by his sword or gun. And Cap can't just shrug off DS's hits like DS can shrug off Cap's hits.
Loki is stronger than either Slade or Cap, and his staff has even greater range than a sword. Also, Rumlow was in fact dual wielding (I am assuming you mean the elevator scene), and Steve wasn't using his shield at all. So, not the best examples. And what makes you think he can just "shrug off" Cap's hits? Even the hits that didn't severely damage the likes of Winter Soldier, Black Panther etc. still sent them flying back or knocked them down. Also, Steve isn't stupid. He is a very tactical fighter. If he sees his opponent has a notable advantage somewhere, he will try to remove it. Like when he disarmed Bucky of his knives during the highway fight in CA:TWS (and tried to disable his mech arm), or damaged IM's boot to take away his flight in CA:CW, or when he took Rumlow's mech arms off during their CA:CW fight (which is another example of him fending off longer blades, and without his shield to boot).
Originally posted by Silent Master
Dom survived being in an exploding airplane in Fast 6. was Slade actually shown being directly hit with the explosive?
Not that I can remember. And, while it was not Slade himself, two of his Mirakuru soldiers got KO'd when one of Oliver's green-light explosive arrows blew up in their face. And the blast didn't even appear to be grenade level.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Loki is stronger than either Slade or Cap, and his staff has even greater range than a sword. Also, Rumlow was in fact dual wielding (I am assuming you mean the elevator scene), and Steve wasn't using his shield at all. So, not the best examples. And what makes you think he can just "shrug off" Cap's hits? Even the hits that didn't severely damage the likes of Winter Soldier, Black Panther etc. still sent them flying back or knocked them down. Also, Steve isn't stupid. He is a very tactical fighter. If he sees his opponent has a notable advantage somewhere, he will try to remove it. Like when he disarmed Bucky of his knives during the highway fight in CA:TWS (and tried to disable his mech arm), or damaged IM's boot to take away his flight in CA:CW, or when he took Rumlow's mech arms off during their CA:CW fight (which is another example of him fending off longer blades, and without his shield to boot).
Ok so let me get this straight. You're telling me that a person who's bulletproof (with armor), can tank getting hit with speeding vans, is armed with numerous guns, a sword and probably a few knives, has super strength enough to easily throw around crates, and has skills enough to make him one of the best fighters in the Arrowverse (a show that has numerous skilled fighters) is going to lose to Cap?
And you're basing this all on the assumption that Cap's shield is going to hurt him despite us having no evidence that the shield can harm him through his combined armor and natural durability. I mean, what's your basis for thinking Cap can injure him enough to count as a win?
Originally posted by FrothByte
Prove that it can cut his limbs off when it wasn't cutting SHIELD/Hydra agents limbs off.
The shield cut a Chitauri's arm cannon clean off with not much effort.
Bucky chucked it so hard it cut through a van.
Cap threw it hard enough and used it hard enough to destroy a Quinjet.
Let's not act like Cap would go around chopping off regular peoples body parts. Slade is another story though.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok so let me get this straight. You're telling me that a person who's bulletproof (with armor), can tank getting hit with speeding vans, is armed with numerous guns, a sword and probably a few knives, has super strength enough to easily throw around crates, and has skills enough to make him one of the best fighters in the Arrowverse (a show that has numerous skilled fighters) is going to lose to Cap?And you're basing this all on the assumption that Cap's shield is going to hurt him despite us having no evidence that the shield can harm him through his combined armor and natural durability. I mean, what's your basis for thinking Cap can injure him enough to count as a win?
Firstly where did I say he loses? I said it's an interesting fight. I haven't decided who I think wins. So please, stop trying to strawman my statements. And no evidence? Really? So, Cap being able to damage Iron Man, Ultron, Winter Soldier's metal arm, cut through elevator cables, bust through locks etc. is "no evidence"? Okay then.
Also, Slade used one gun (which he only ever used once as DS), used one sword, and had grenades (which he never used). So, you're also exaggerating his arsenal.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Prove that it can cut his limbs off when it wasn't cutting SHIELD/Hydra agents limbs off.
Weren't you the guy who brought up that Cap cut one of the Iron Legion in half with a shield toss, and severed a Chitauri arm, when asked about Cap decapitating a person with a single, clean shield strike? (it was in the Ancient One gauntlet I made)
You also seemed confident that Cap could do notable damage to Luke Cage, using his shield, in the Cap vs Luke Cage thread from a while back, but here you are claiming Slade can "shrug off" his hits. You know, Luke, the guy who has tanked getting hit by a speeding SUV without even budging, walked out of an exploding bar without a scratch on him, has tanked more bullets than all the Mirakuru soldiers combined, and is strong enough to cave a dumpster in by pressing on it, completely knock over a gallery support pillar while injured, casually bend gun barrels, punch through concrete and steel etc.
Just trying to understand your logic here.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Firstly where did I say he loses? I said it's an interesting fight. I haven't decided who I think wins. So please, stop trying to strawman my statements. And no evidence? Really? So, Cap being able to damage Iron Man, Ultron, Winter Soldier's metal arm, cut through elevator cables, bust through locks etc. is "no evidence"? Okay then.Also, Slade used one gun (which he only ever used once as DS), used one sword, and had grenades (which he never used). So, you're also exaggerating his arsenal.
Weren't you the guy who brought up that Cap cut one of the Iron Legion in half with a shield toss, and severed a Chitauri arm, when asked about Cap decapitating a person with a single, clean shield strike? (it was in the Ancient One gauntlet I made)
You also seemed confident that Cap could do notable damage to Luke Cage, using his shield, in the Cap vs Luke Cage thread from a while back, but here you are claiming Slade can "shrug off" his hits. You know, Luke, the guy who has tanked getting hit by a speeding SUV without even budging, walked out of an exploding bar without a scratch on him, has tanked more bullets than all the Mirakuru soldiers combined, and is strong enough to cave a dumpster in by pressing on it, completely knock over a gallery support pillar while injured, casually bend gun barrels, punch through concrete and steel etc.
Just trying to understand your logic here.
Luke Cage has been shown to get hurt with enough blunt force. I have yet to see Slade get hurt with enough blunt force especially while in his armor. Luke Cage's skill is also nowhere near Deathsroke's, nor is he armed with a gun, grenades or a sword. Give Luke Cage DS's skill and weapons and I'd back him up in a fight against Cap too.
You're right, I did mention how Cap cut through ultronbots and chitauri. I'll take back that argument then.
Let me put it this way instead: Cap needed repeated hits to damage IM, plus help from Bucky plus IM not taking him seriously at first. Cap's shield did minimal damage to Bucky's arm, not enough to end the fight. For what it's worth, I'm not saying Cap can't hurt Slade, I'm saying he won't be able to injure him enough before Cap gets taken out.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Luke Cage has been shown to get hurt with enough blunt force. I have yet to see Slade get hurt with enough blunt force especially while in his armor. Luke Cage's skill is also nowhere near Deathsroke's, nor is he armed with a gun, grenades or a sword. Give Luke Cage DS's skill and weapons and I'd back him up in a fight against Cap too.
Yet he has other, better, durability feats than Slade. Which logically means the force that actually hurt him must be greater than the other things he soaked up. At one point Diamondback hit Cage so hard he flew back into a van, and actually knocked the van backwards a bit. Slade has never had to take repeated hits from someone as strong as Diamondback. I don't see Slade taking his punches any better than Luke did. And, in the end of that fight, it's not like Luke was really in that bad of shape. He had a bit of blood in his mouth/on his lip (which he wiped away with a tissue), but then walked off with Claire, without showing any other signs of pain, injury, or discomfort.
Originally posted by FrothByte
You're right, I did mention how Cap cut through ultronbots and chitauri. I'll take back that argument then.Let me put it this way instead: Cap needed repeated hits to damage IM, plus help from Bucky plus IM not taking him seriously at first. Cap's shield did minimal damage to Bucky's arm, not enough to end the fight. For what it's worth, I'm not saying Cap can't hurt Slade, I'm saying he won't be able to injure him enough before Cap gets taken out.
Well, I never said it would be easy to dish out the damage required. I also don't see any limb severing happening (as I mentioned earlier). But I am also considering the fact that Cap has consistently pulled off the seemingly impossible, and often fights well above his perceived weight class. He's done it enough times that it can be considered a character trait of his. Even before the serum, he was pushing through military drills and training despite having an extremely long list of physical ailments and problems. And, as mentioned previously, he often does things to try and even up the odds in fights. And Slade was arrogant while on Mirakuru, and very much unhinged. Those things also factor into how a fight would go.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yet he has other, better, durability feats than Slade. Which logically means the force that actually hurt him must be greater than the other things he soaked up. At one point Diamondback hit Cage so hard he flew back into a van, and actually knocked the van backwards a bit. Slade has never had to take repeated hits from someone as strong as Diamondback. I don't see Slade taking his punches any better than Luke did. And, in the end of that fight, it's not like Luke was really in that bad of shape. He had a bit of blood in his mouth/on his lip (which he wiped away with a tissue), but then walked off with Claire, without showing any other signs of pain, injury, or discomfort.Well, I never said it would be easy to dish out the damage required. I also don't see any limb severing happening (as I mentioned earlier). But I am also considering the fact that Cap has consistently pulled off the seemingly impossible, and often fights well above his perceived weight class. He's done it enough times that it can be considered a character trait of his. Even before the serum, he was pushing through military drills and training despite having an extremely long list of physical ailments and problems. And, as mentioned previously, he often does things to try and even up the odds in fights. And Slade was arrogant while on Mirakuru, and very much unhinged. Those things also factor into how a fight would go.
I'm not even sure if you're disagreeing with me on anything here. My point being, IMO there's only a small gap in skill and speed between Cap and DS whereas there's a huge gap in durability. Cap is at a disadvantage in this fight.
The reason I gave Cap the win against Luke Cage is due to a huge advantage in skill. That advantage is not present in this fight.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm not even sure if you're disagreeing with me on anything here. My point being, IMO there's only a small gap in skill and speed between Cap and DS whereas there's a huge gap in durability. Cap is at a disadvantage in this fight.The reason I gave Cap the win against Luke Cage is due to a huge advantage in skill. That advantage is not present in this fight.
We're agreed on things like personal durability being different. I just think Cap has shown enough ability and combat intelligence across 5 films that a durability advantage isn't a guaranteed autowin for the other guy. Also, as I pointed out, he has defended against various types of guns on several occasions, knives, and even longer blades, so Slade having a weapon advantage is also debatable (a physics-defying nigh-indestructible shield is no joke). In things like TFA and TWS, Steve actually used enemy weapons against them, after taking them off them (For example, he killed one HYDRA soldier with a knife taken from another in TFA, and used a grenade he took from one soldier to take out a couple others in TWS). I never said Slade would decisively lose this. Out of 10, I would potentially give him a majority. But I wouldn't be surprised if Cap could also eek out a couple of wins as well.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I watched some scenes if DS fighting in YT but w/c scenes would you say clinch this fight in his favor durability-wise and puts him at Cap-lvl strength/speed-wise?
Well, a lot of feats are scaled off his soldiers (he had an army of Mirakuru soldiers invading the city at the end of s2). But Slade himself has tanked gunfire without any discomfort while wearing his armour, snapped a rifle in half, and punched a hole in a man's chest, as well as sending other individuals flying with hits/kicks. I would still give Cap the edge in terms of overall strength and fighting speed feats, but Slade is also fast enough that he could use his sword to deflect multiple arrows shot at him with it.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I watched some scenes if DS fighting in YT but w/c scenes would you say clinch this fight in his favor durability-wise and puts him at Cap-lvl strength/speed-wise?
Just adding to what Vault said, a lot of the feats will be based off his Mirakuru soldiers, which used his blood to gain their strength and (we're led to believe - at least if I remember this correctly) are watered-down versions of himself.