Originally posted by RealityWarper
That's not gonna happen but he is probably more skilled than they are.I think that IF and Schang Chi are below Batman in skill and KK is better than Batman.
KK is definitely better than Batman, no matter what happened the last time they fought. However, I would also rate both Iron Fist and Shang Chi as better than Batman in pure hand to hand.
Originally posted by spetznaz
KK is definitely better than Batman, no matter what happened the last time they fought. However, I would also rate both Iron Fist and Shang Chi as better than Batman in pure hand to hand.
Yep.
I don't think that they are better, remember that Wolverine and Cap are more skilled than IF and SC.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Yep.I don't think that they are better, remember that Wolverine and Cap are more skilled than IF and SC.
There's a slight difference between skill and being able to win a fight.
For example, as I mentioned I believe that Iron Fist and Shang Chi are more skilled in pure hand to hand combat that Bruce Wayne is. In the same manner that Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva are more skilled than Bruce. The four characters are the epitome of unarmed martial arts, and while Bruce Wayne is a true master, the four are better than him.
That's not to say that kitted out he could not defeat them. I'd put my money on Bruce. But in a dojo/dojang fight? Easily any of the four.
Same thing when you bring in Wolverine. I believe any of the four (Iron Fist, Shang Chi, Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva) are more skilled at hand to hand combat than Logan. However, Logan is a mutant with abilities that are closer to 'super human' than to 'peak human.'
It is like having Bruce Lee (read: Shang Chi) fight a male adult chimpanzee (read: Wolverine). Bruce Lee is obviously more skilled than any chimp, but the chimp would still tear his face off. Literally.
Same thing for Steve Rogers. In the past two decades, his writing has shifted quite a bit from the 'peak human' the SSS was supposed to make him.
I think Steve can defeat, say, Shang Chi in a fight. But I think that is a function of who (and WHAT) Steve is, which is not really human. Shang is still more skilled in fighting than Steve, but would lose in a fight against Steve.
Originally posted by spetznaz
There's a slight difference between skill and being able to win a fight.
Yep.
For example, as I mentioned I believe that Iron Fist and Shang Chi are more skilled in pure hand to hand combat that Bruce Wayne is. In the same manner that Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva are more skilled than Bruce. The four characters are the epitome of unarmed martial arts, and while Bruce Wayne is a true master, the four are better than him.
I can agree with Lady Shiva and Richard Dragon being more skilled in hand-to-hand than Bruce, but what makes you think that IF and SC are more skilled than Batman ?
That's not to say that kitted out he could not defeat them. I'd put my money on Bruce. But in a dojo/dojang fight? Easily any of the four.
Because which feats ?
Same thing when you bring in Wolverine. I believe any of the four (Iron Fist, Shang Chi, Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva) are more skilled at hand to hand combat than Logan. However, Logan is a mutant with abilities that are closer to 'super human' than to 'peak human.'
I precisely bring Logan into the discussion because he already defeated Shang Chi and Iron Fist via skills alone.
It is like having Bruce Lee (read: Shang Chi) fight a male adult chimpanzee (read: Wolverine). Bruce Lee is obviously more skilled than any chimp, but the chimp would still tear his face off. Literally.
I'm afraid that the comparison doesn't match.
Wolverine is always pictured as an extremely skilled character... When he chose to use his skills. Logan is one century old and has even alien martial arts in his skillset if I remember correctly.
Same thing for Steve Rogers. In the past two decades, his writing has shifted quite a bit from the 'peak human' the SSS was supposed to make him.
I don't agree with that ^^
I think Steve can defeat, say, Shang Chi in a fight. But I think that is a function of who (and WHAT) Steve is, which is not really human. Shang is still more skilled in fighting than Steve, but would lose in a fight against Steve.
I think that it can go either ways in a fight between Shang Chi and Steve but Steve is more skilled.
The tactics, general physical condition of the characters and the combat tactics can change the issue of the fight.
Originally posted by cdtm
Wolverine went to Shang Chi for training.
No, he went to him in hopes of learning to better control his rage. The entire First Class series was about that. As Sabretooth was playing mindgames with Logan and pushing his buttons, making him unable to focus on the actual fight.
Originally posted by spetznazlol Shang Chi is more on Nightwing's level in pure hand to hand, Bruce would cave his face in easily.
KK is definitely better than Batman, no matter what happened the last time they fought. However, I would also rate both Iron Fist and Shang Chi as better than Batman in pure hand to hand.
Originally posted by RadZoayeah, like that time that he fought nightwing and didn't cave in his face easily. Also, I love how you bring up pure h2h skill while ignoring that Shanghai can also use chi to amp himself.
lol Shang Chi is more on Nightwing's level in pure hand to hand, Bruce would cave his face in easily.
