Originally posted by operator616
Zarathos is on the same level as Mephisto, that was made pretty clear in their encounters.Either way, DP wins here.
No. He isn't.
Their first encounter Mephisto stomped and captured him.
The second encounter, Alejandra received a massive amp coming from Adam whom fed Ghost Rider with Sins.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Their first encounter Mephisto stomped and captured him.
Mephisto orchestrated events so that Zarathos' hold on the mortal plane weakened thus leaving him vulnerable to attack. It's stated plain as day:
Hell, even later on it was revealed that Zarathos grew too powerful for Mephisto to contain.
Originally posted by RealityWarperThe second encounter, Alejandra received a massive amp coming from Adam whom fed Ghost Rider with Sins.
Ok, first of all this is why i said Zarathos is merely on the same level as Mephisto; had i ignored the context i would have directly stated that Zarathos is superior. So keep that in mind, im not debating Zarathos' superiority, merely disproving your claim of Zarathos not being anywhere near Mephisto's level.
Secondly, yes, Zarathos needed the amp to defeat Mephisto which doesn't retract from my statement of them being on the same level. The amp merely gave Zarathos the upper hand.
Originally posted by operator616
Mephisto orchestrated events so that Zarathos' hold on the mortal plane weakened thus leaving him vulnerable to attack. It's stated plain as day:Hell, even later on it was revealed that Zarathos grew too powerful for Mephisto to contain.
I know that.
The point is that Zarathos, without an external source of power amping him, is a street-leveler.
Ok, first of all this is why i said Zarathos is merely on the same level as Mephisto; had i ignored the context i would have directly stated that Zarathos is superior. So keep that in mind, im not debating Zarathos' superiority, merely disproving your claim of Zarathos not being anywhere near Mephisto's level.
I get it.
Secondly, yes, Zarathos needed the amp to defeat Mephisto which doesn't retract from my statement of them being on the same level. The amp merely gave Zarathos the upper hand.
Why this doesn't retract your statement for them being on the same level ?
Originally posted by RealityWarper
I know that.The point is that Zarathos, without an external source of power amping him, is a street-leveler.
Not to mention that you conveniently ignored the part where Zarathos grew too powerful for Mephisto to handle. Some street-leveler he is. 😂
Originally posted by RealityWarperWhy this doesn't retract your statement for them being on the same level ?
Because he actually defeated Mephisto. Had they stalemated for instance, then you'll some grounds to base your Mephisto >>>Zarathos argument upon. As it stands, Zarathos was already on Mephisto's level, but needed extra power to actually have the upper hand and defeat him.
Originally posted by operator616
What are you talking about? As if Mephisto doesn't feed on "external" sources. Heck, the reason Mephisto even wanted to get rid of Zarathos is because he wanted those human souls for himself. It's extremely common for hell lords to feed on humans, to the point where it shouldn't even be considered an amp; in fact, some hell lords existence is defined on feeding on humans and Mephisto is one of them.
That means that without believes AKA an external source to feed on they can't be powerful.
All the Hell Lords aren't as powerful as Mephisto.
We basically agree that Zarathos isn't as powerful as Mephisto by agreeing that Zarathos has no source to feed him at Mephisto-level.
Not to mention that you conveniently ignored the part where Zarathos grew too powerful for Mephisto to handle. Some street-leveler he is. 😂
I didn't ignore it.
The story said that Mephisto couldn't contain him. Zarathos was imprisoned in a Crystal in Hell.
That just mean that his jail wasn't powerful enough to restrain him. This doesn't mean that he was at Mephisto-level.
Because he actually defeated Mephisto.
He didn't.
Alejandra WITH A MASSIVE AMP COMING FROM ADAM did.
Had they stalemated for instance, then you'll some grounds to base your Mephisto >>>Zarathos argument upon. As it stands, Zarathos was already on Mephisto's level, but needed extra power to actually have the upper hand and defeat him.
No.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
That means that without believes AKA an external source to feed on they can't be powerful.All the Hell Lords aren't as powerful as Mephisto.
We basically agree that Zarathos isn't as powerful as Mephisto by agreeing that Zarathos has no source to feed him at Mephisto-level.
Yes, and how does that help your argument? That's exactly what i said. So if you are going to attribute Zarathos to having an amp, you may as well apply that to Mephisto as well.
Mephisto isn't even a top tier hell lord.
And what is Base Mephisto level? Mephisto is constantly feeding on something/someone. Which is why regarding this as an amp is wrong, at least for hell lords.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
I didn't ignore it.The story said that Mephisto couldn't contain him. Zarathos was imprisoned in a Crystal in Hell.
That just mean that his jail wasn't powerful enough to restrain him. This doesn't mean that he was at Mephisto-level.
A prison made by Mephisto; if he was capable of making it more powerful to contain Zarathos he would've. Evidently, Zarathos grew too powerful to contain.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
He didn't.Alejandra WITH A MASSIVE AMP COMING FROM ADAM did.
No shit, have you even been following the argument?
Let me make this simpler for you.
you have 2 guys who are about the same level of strength, neither one is strong enough to put the other down without some help. So one of the guys gets a knife (an amp) to have the upper hand on the other. That's basically the case here, they're on the same level hence why he needed an amp. How is this so hard to understand?
Originally posted by operator616
Yes, and how does that help your argument? That's exactly what i said. So if you are going to attribute Zarathos to having an amp, you may as well apply that to Mephisto as well.
That's right.
The difference is that Mephisto's current power-level is maintained by the sins of mortals and his worshippers and that Zarathos have nothing of that.
Mephisto is one of the most powerful Hell Lords.
Zarathos is a weak second grade demon.
Mephisto isn't even a top tier hell lord.
He is a top-tier Hell Lord...
He is said to be around Odin-level...
And what is Base Mephisto level? Mephisto is constantly feeding on something/someone. Which is why regarding this as an amp is wrong, at least for hell lords.
It is still his current power-level, it is still an amp. it is still maintained.
It's not wrong to look at it as an amp BUT it's his current power-level so it has to be dismissed.
A prison made by Mephisto; if he was capable of making it more powerful to contain Zarathos he would've. Evidently, Zarathos grew too powerful to contain.
*sigh*
Your logic is very strange on this.
Let's make an analogy:
The government (Mephisto) build a prison (the Crystal) to keep a prisoner (Zarathos) into it.
This just mean that Zarathos is powerful enough to quit his jail. That's it.
No shit, have you even been following the argument?Let me make this simpler for you.
I am not the one who needs further explanation.
you have 2 guys who are about the same level of strength, neither one is strong enough to put the other down without some help. So one of the guys gets a knife (an amp) to have the upper hand on the other. That's basically the case here, they're on the same level hence why he needed an amp. How is this so hard to understand?
The problem with your theory is that your premises are all wrong.
Zarathos is compared to current Mephisto's power-level, including the massive energy he receives from his worshippers and the sins on earth, demonic pacts and other souls that come to complete Mephisto's vast collection...
That's why Zarathos needed the help of Adam, the FIRST SINNER, the receive a MASSIVE BOOST of his POWER-LEVEL and pose a threat to Mephisto.
Zarathos is still a street-leveler.
I clearly see that we will not agree on this so let's agree to disagree.
It is pointless to rush on a argument and fuel this thread with drama.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
That's right.The difference is that Mephisto's current power-level is maintained by the sins of mortals and his worshippers and that Zarathos have nothing of that.
Zarathos doesn't have the level of worshippers that Mephisto has solely because Zarathos tricked him in their very first ecnounter.
Originally posted by RealityWarperMephisto is one of the most powerful Hell Lords.
Zarathos is a weak second grade demon.
He is a top-tier Hell Lord...
He is said to be around Odin-level...
Funny you should say that because Mephisto doesn't have a good track record against Thor (even in his own realm), nevermind Odin. In fact, Odin nullified Mephisto's contract rather easily.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
It is still his current power-level, it is still an amp. it is still maintained.It's not wrong to look at it as an amp BUT it's his current power-level so it has to be dismissed.
So it's an amp, but it can be regarded as his base power.
Yet in Zarathos's case, it cannot be regarded as his base power, only an amp.
Double standard much?
Originally posted by RealityWarper
*sigh*Your logic is very strange on this.
Let's make an analogy:
The government (Mephisto) build a prison (the Crystal) to keep a prisoner (Zarathos) into it.
This just mean that Zarathos is powerful enough to quit his jail. That's it.
Some analogies are simply inapplicable, such as this one. It's not like Mephisto is building the prison from physical material like we humans do. If you look at the scan, he clearly captured his essence, thus it's his raw power powering it.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The problem with your theory is that your premises are all wrong.Zarathos is compared to current Mephisto's power-level, including the massive energy he receives from his worshippers and the sins on earth, demonic pacts and other souls that come to complete Mephisto's vast collection...
That's why Zarathos needed the help of Adam, the FIRST SINNER, the receive a MASSIVE BOOST of his POWER-LEVEL and pose a threat to Mephisto.
Zarathos is still a street-leveler.
I clearly see that we will not agree on this so let's agree to disagree.
It is pointless to rush on a argument and fuel this thread with drama.
Already covered the first part.
That's a vast overstatement of the events but fine, we'll agree to disagree. I still stand by my assessment that he needed the amp solely to give him the upper hand and not because he was far less powerful than Mephisto, especially based on their previous showings.