Originally posted by Petrus
Korriban Academy. Light side Revan solo'd all the amped Sith there. 🙂Anyway, Darth Revan > every version of Surik [although, I do believe KotOR II Surik isn't far below at all].
So, Revan clears every round.
Soloing students isn't even remotely sufficient grounds to say he can solo the Trayus Academy, which comprises of the strongest Sith in the Triumvirate. Not to mention Sion or Traya, who could probably replicate that showing.
Again, I'm open to the possibility of Darth Revan > endgame KotOR II Exile, I just want a more definitive case on it than what I've been offered, which isn't very inspiring.
"For a time I worked with the greatest of your Jedi heroes: Revan and the Jedi Exile."
- Lord Scourge-
"I thought that Revan was a singular Jedi, but now there's you.
- Canderous Ordo
"You are greater than any I have ever trained."
- Kreia
"the Exile is probably more skilled at dueling."
- Drew Karpyshyn
Revan Reborn is clearly her superior in Force power, but the Exile is more skilled as a duelist. Her being so clearly up there among the Top 3 Jedi in TOR history, makes it clear to me that only Revan in his prime is her far and away superior.
That doesn't preclude the possibility of Darth Revan being more powerful, even if it's not by much. Drew's opinion is pretty useless except to counter other people citing his opinion, and Kreia's comment is unlikely to refer to power. As for Scourge's remark, the fact that the Exile's second place doesn't preclude the possibility of first place being far and away more powerful.
Canderous' comment is there, but vague. Also, was he there to witness Revan's greatest feats in battle?
His opinion on the characters he created/rewrote carries significant weight via Authorial Intent.
Kreia's intent was to train an Apprentice as great as her first, more powerful than she is and only states the Exile is such due to the Exile's proving herself through the ultimate tests of physical, mental and spiritual strength. Kreia's opinion is that the Exile is > Wars Revan.
He makes it emphatically clear that the two of them, with the Hero of Tython included, are the greatest Jedi heroes in history. No hesitation whatsoever. Is this explicit parity? No. Does it mean the Exile-with the other two-is effectively in a league/tier of her own? Pretty much.
Revan himself considers his companions as a significant difference maker in a battle against the Emperor, despite the battle with Darth Nyriss. The Exile > Scourge is proven time and again in the novel, meaning the Exile herself would be the second greatest contribution in such a contest per Revan's own estimations. She's clearly not so drastically inferior when Revan doesn't believe so himself.
He was a member of Revan's party for the entirety of Redeemed Revan's crusade, furthermore the two of them would have undoubtedly conversed over their battles countless times given they repeatedly met in bars on Coruscant.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
If we're using author intent, then KotOR II quotes shouldn't be brought in, since Avellone remarked Revan >> the Exile despite Ordo and Kreia's quotes, IMO.
Well, he was the lead writer, not the only writer. It's unlikely, but there may have been deviations from his take on things. He did say in those emails that it was just his own opinion, IIRC.
Originally posted by AncientPower
His opinion on the characters he created/rewrote carries significant weight via Authorial Intent.
Right, but if you apply this to Avellone, you reach the conclusion of Revan being able to curb the Exile and beat both the Exile and Traya together. So either you take both and head to the middle ground, or dismiss both. You can't have two bites of the cherry.
Kreia's intent was to train an Apprentice as great as her first, more powerful than she is and only states the Exile is such due to the Exile's proving herself through the ultimate tests of physical, mental and spiritual strength. Kreia's opinion is that the Exile is > Wars Revan.
The Exile being greater than MW Revan isn't exactly relevant to our point. That aside, it seems to me that the "greatness" Kreia had in mind was in reference to the Exile's ability to live without being a slave to the Force.
He makes it emphatically clear that the two of them, with the Hero of Tython included, are the greatest Jedi heroes in history. No hesitation whatsoever. Is this explicit parity? No. Does it mean the Exile-with the other two-is effectively in a league/tier of her own? Pretty much.
Which begs the question of how big said league is. Certainly novel Revan shits on the Hero as of Act II. All the quote is saying is that those three happen to be the top three of any Jedi Scourge's killed. It doesn't in of itself make the three of them comparable to one another.
Revan himself considers his companions as a significant difference maker in a battle against the Emperor, despite the battle with Darth Nyriss. The Exile > Scourge is proven time and again in the novel, meaning the Exile herself would be the second greatest contribution in such a contest per Revan's own estimations. She's clearly not so drastically inferior when Revan doesn't believe so himself.
Significant in that they could provide fatal distractions or capitalise on said distractions on merit of Vitiate's terrible combative awareness. Based on how Nyriss wrecked Scourge and Meetra with the Force and Vitiate is "infinitely more powerful", it's clear that they don't even begin to compare on merit of power.
He was a member of Revan's party for the entirety of Redeemed Revan's crusade, furthermore the two of them would have undoubtedly conversed over their battles countless times given they repeatedly met in bars on Coruscant.
No doubt they fought together, but it seems like Revan's premier feat(s) were done without Canderous being nearby. Just a note, of course; remember Canderous also made the comparison between Revan and the Exile when the latter was pre-Dantooine. Which is pretty impressive.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Soloing students isn't even remotely sufficient grounds to say he can solo the Trayus Academy, which comprises of the strongest Sith in the Triumvirate. Not to mention Sion or Traya, who could probably replicate that showing.
It's actually soloing students and masters after beating two Terentateks and the two most powerful Sith in the Academy and going through every Dark Lord's tomb alone.
But yeah, I know the Trayus Academy Fest is more impressive.
Then again, he did solo an army of droids and then defeated SF amped Malak in combat, just after defeating Bastila and a ton of Malak's best Sith on the way.
I mean, I'd say Surik and Revan have comparable army busting feats up to the novel, at least.
Again, I'm open to the possibility of Darth Revan > endgame KotOR II Exile, I just want a more definitive case on it than what I've been offered, which isn't very inspiring.
I honestly dont think there's any clear-cut arguments to be made that Revan unquestionably > KOTOR II Exile, tbh. Ant?
Originally posted by AncientPowerRevan himself considers his companions as a significant difference maker in a battle against the Emperor, despite the battle with Darth Nyriss. The Exile > Scourge is proven time and again in the novel, meaning the Exile herself would be the second greatest contribution in such a contest per Revan's own estimations. She's clearly not so drastically inferior when Revan doesn't believe so himself.
Novel Revan >> Surik, tho.
Considering they never faced off in a duel, that's a possibility.
Better yet, a hindered/post-Nathema Meetra Surik is not the same thing as a full strength Surik against an unamped Darth Nyriss, when she can actually use her meditative stances which increased her effectiveness in combat considerably. More importantly, Nyriss was infact winning via augmentation.
The gap between them may not be as large as you'd think, she had no choice but to attack because she'd already gathered her power and Revan had gotten up in the mean time. She was basically cornered into leaving herself defenseless. It may not have been so easy in an actual one on one confrontation.
Originally posted by Petrus
It's actually soloing students and masters after beating two Terentateks and the two most powerful Sith in the Academy and going through every Dark Lord's tomb alone.But yeah, I know the Trayus Academy Fest is more impressive.
Then again, he did solo an army of droids and then defeated SF amped Malak in combat, just after defeating Bastila and a ton of Malak's best Sith on the way.
I mean, I'd say Surik and Revan have comparable army busting feats up to the novel, at least.
1. Isn't that DS version? In which case Revan would be greatly amped by Korriban alongside the other Sith, not hindered as some are trying to point out.
2. That's not Darth Revan, that's KotoR Revan.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Isn't that DS version? In which case Revan would be greatly amped by Korriban alongside the other Sith, not hindered as some are trying to point out.2. That's not Darth Revan, that's KotoR Revan.
1. No. In the LS version you kill Uthar and then redeem Yuthura. She leaves to never be seen again, and when you leave the tomb, all the Sith act hostile towards you, IIRC.
2. Right. I completely forgot about that, lol. However... I reckon Darth Revan would also be able to pull that off, considering he'd be amped by Korriban and that version of KOTOR Revan not being as powerful as the one that fought Malak aboard the SF yet.