Originally posted by MythLord
I was a Christian, now I'm just a theist, of sorts. I think there's some higher thing(can't find any other proper term for it) beyond us that we can't comprehend, I just don't think any of the world's religions are 100% truthful in their representation of it.
So you are a theist. Okay. I believe there is too.
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Originally posted by MythLord
I was a Christian, now I'm just a theist, of sorts. I think there's some higher thing(can't find any other proper term for it) beyond us that we can't comprehend, I just don't think any of the world's religions are 100% truthful in their representation of it.
I was the same when I was recovering from my Christianity. And that's fine, but you have to be aware that there isn't evidence for a supernatural being because evidence is continually confirming that everything has come about by natural processes. And this belief in a "higher thing" is continually used as unwarranted justification for ridiculous books claiming to be written by said "higher thing." So it's really best just to drop the whole concept altogether in my experience.
The only "higher thing" that we can't really comprehend is our self-awareness, or very consciousness. But that is us, it's not separate from us. It's our very being. It's the only "God" that could be said to exist. Life is just this evolving consciousness. Look at animals and it's obvious. They have a more primitive consciousness. Ours just happens to be the most advanced that we know of.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I was the same when I was recovering from my Christianity. And that's fine, but you have to be aware that there isn't evidence for a supernatural being because evidence is continually confirming that everything has come about by natural processes. And this belief in a "higher thing" is continually used as unwarranted justification for ridiculous books claiming to be written by said "higher thing." So it's really best just to drop the whole concept altogether in my experience.The only "higher thing" that we can't really comprehend is our self-awareness, or very consciousness. But that is us, it's not separate from us. It's our very being. It's the only "God" that could be said to exist. Life is just this evolving consciousness. Look at animals and it's obvious. They have a more primitive consciousness. Ours just happens to be the most advanced that we know of.
Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, you can say I believe in a being(or beings) with far more advanced consciousness than ours. I also don't use the higher thing as an excuse to apply the Bible to every single detail of my life.
I was the other way around, I was a science guy who ended up turning into Faith.
Why? Well i ended up realizing that saying we are the only one's in this universe is primitive; it is arrogant and selfish.
Our science has proven that this universe is 14BILLION YEARS OLD! Our earth is 2/7 the age of the Universe. And Humanity is confined to only a couple million years.
Furthermore, humanity's history is limited to this past Thousand years....And even more impressive, our technology is limited to his last decades...
Look to the past, 100 years from now, no one would ever imagine a cell phone!
Now imagine how much our technology will evolve 100 years from now....Certainly cellphones will be obsolete, and our cars but horses to our current society.
So I ask you, what would another race from outer space look, if they were 2000 years more advanced than us???
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Why? Well i ended up realizing that saying we are the only one's in this universe is primitive; it is arrogant and selfish.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Are you kidding me? Most atheists don't say that we are the only ones in the Universe, lol. That's more of a thing religious people do.
Also, neither Patient nor Myth implied that with their posts.
Well if you believe we are not alone in the universe then you should believe in Gods.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Well if you believe we are not alone in the universe then you should believe in Gods.
Ummm..no. Believing in other life forms doesn't mean you believe in an all creator. That isn't an if-then scenario. One would be supported from a biological standpoint, the other is simply faith based.
Originally posted by SunRazer
How does that even work?
Well, then you should believe that there are Superior races outside in the universe.
Beings whose power would only be described as Godly.
Originally posted by socool8520
Ummm..no. Believing in other life forms doesn't mean you believe in an all creator. That isn't an if-then scenario. One would be supported from a biological standpoint, the other is simply faith based.
Not really.
Even us Humans could became Gods in a future.
What will happen when our intelligence reaches a level in where we will be able to create life? Won't such life consider us Gods?
In a similar way, if you believe that there is extraterrestrial life, then you should believe that there could be races whose intelligence has already reached such levels.
An All Creator God is possible in such beliefs.
That makes no sense. No matter how awe-inspiring their technology is, I would view them as a race, not a pantheon. I don't believe in deifying anyone.
The "superior race" thing is a faulty mindset to begin with. That doesn't need to factor into your thinking for you to do business with other races. Forget superiority; just treat them as a different race and try to interact with them peacefully to learn more about them. Belief in superiority is exactly what leads to discriminatory mindsets and an assumption that we or they inherently deserve better. Doesn't apply between different human races; shouldn't apply between different species to the most practicable extent.
Not that advanced species make a compelling case for theists anyway. The vast majority of theists have pre-conceived notions of what their God(s) is/are like, and the point is that none of that can stand up to evidential scrutiny. Speculative advanced races aren't evidence of God....
Originally posted by SunRazer
That makes no sense. No matter how awe-inspiring their technology is, I would view them as a race, not a pantheon. I don't believe in deifying anyone.The "superior race" thing is a faulty mindset to begin with. That doesn't need to factor into your thinking for you to do business with other races. Forget superiority; just treat them as a different race and try to interact with them peacefully to learn more about them. Belief in superiority is exactly what leads to discriminatory mindsets and an assumption that we or they inherently deserve better. Doesn't apply between different human races; shouldn't apply between different species to the most practicable extent.
Not that advanced species make a compelling case for theists anyway. The vast majority of theists have pre-conceived notions of what their God(s) is/are like, and the point is that none of that can stand up to evidential scrutiny. Speculative advanced races aren't evidence of God....
Except our Ancestors could have called such beings Gods!
Instead of "Superior beings" they were called Gods. We could have been created by other Superior Alien Races which would basically make them our Gods.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Except our Ancestors could have called such beings Gods!Instead of "Superior beings" they were called Gods. We could have been created by other Superior Alien Races which would basically make them our Gods.
That's just fan-fiction at this point. From what we know, ancient peoples used mythologies and deities to explain events that appeared supernatural to them, as they lacked any scientific knowledge. That is why they characterised natural disasters and the like as being products of the gods' wraths - we now know that there are no extraterrestrial advanced races causing storms and volcanic eruptions.
If there's evidence that they encountered any such alien races, we might get somewhere (though I still would never personally deify any race, so I myself would remain atheist), but as it is that's a purely conjectural stance and not an argument.
Your argument also falls apart when you consider the sheer diversity of religions, both ancient and modern. There's been thousands of religions that have come and gone. Most theists, coming from a single religion, support an extremely specific deity; that requires evidence on their part, not concession to wild speculative possibilities.
Originally posted by SunRazer
That's just fan-fiction at this point. From what we know, ancient peoples used mythologies and deities to explain events that appeared supernatural to them, as they lacked any scientific knowledge. That is why they characterised natural disasters and the like as being products of the gods' wraths - we now know that there are no extraterrestrial advanced races causing storms and volcanic eruptions.If there's evidence that they encountered any such alien races, we might get somewhere (though I still would never personally deify any race, so I myself would remain atheist), but as it is that's a purely conjectural stance and not an argument.
Your argument also falls apart when you consider the sheer diversity of religions, both ancient and modern. There's been thousands of religions that have come and gone. Most theists, coming from a single religion, support an extremely specific deity; that requires evidence on their part, not concession to wild speculative possibilities.
However they also claimed direct contact with such beings!
So it is more of them attributing such events to the God's they experienced than attributing the Gods to the Events.
That could be argued with the existence of difference Aliens which came to the different places and in different eras to Earth.
People continue to claim alien abductions and reptilian world leaders and what not. Doesn't mean anything. Many people are hopelessly biased, deluded, and/or plain stupid.
To even consider the prospect of a deity's existence I need rigorous, concrete proof, without any shred of doubt. Worshipping something on the basis of "possibility" is legitimately retarded. Unless you're worshipping "just in case" he does something to you, which is just a fear cult and is just as stupid anyway.
The evidence talks; bullshit walks.
Originally posted by SunRazer
People continue to claim alien abductions and reptilian world leaders and what not. Doesn't mean anything. Many people are hopelessly biased, deluded, and/or plain stupid.To even consider the prospect of a deity's existence I need rigorous, concrete proof, without any shred of doubt. Worshipping something on the basis of "possibility" is legitimately retarded. Unless you're worshipping "just in case" he does something to you, which is just a fear cult and is just as stupid anyway.
The evidence talks; bullshit walks.
And many well known/respected scientists not only believe but support the existence of such beings. Even an Atheist would agree with me here.
And what evidence is that?
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
And many well known/respected scientists not only believe but support the existence of such beings. Even an Atheist would agree with me here.And what evidence is that?
I don't care how respectable someone is; they're just as capable of being delusional. Anecdotal evidence is not sufficient because it can't undergo a scientific validation process.
If this was something that many well-respected people could support, they'd have produced a sufficient standard of proof already. That has not been the case.
And it's any kind of evidence that can be scientifically validated. That is, objective, empirical evidence that can be universally accessed/observed/challenged. If that stands up to the test of scrutiny then it will be accepted. Anecdotal evidence does not fall under that category, so what "respected people" say doesn't pass muster.
Originally posted by SunRazer
I don't care how respectable someone is; they're just as capable of being delusional. Anecdotal evidence is not sufficient because it can't undergo a scientific validation process.If this was something that many well-respected people could support, they'd have produced a sufficient standard of proof already. That has not been the case.
And it's any kind of evidence that can be scientifically validated. That is, objective, empirical evidence that can be universally accessed/observed/challenged. If that stands up to the test of scrutiny then it will be accepted. Anecdotal evidence does not fall under that category, so what "respected people" say doesn't pass muster.
Except there is evidence of extraterrestrial life, evidence which this scientist use to prove their points. Like for instance the evidence of bacteria in Martian soils and meteorites.
So again, claiming that there ISN'T such a thing would be more stupid than claiming there is by this point.