Looks like everyone sees this as pretty one sided. I thought there would have been some kind of competition in an indoor environment given their close up tussles in Civil War, and how Tony's AI said he can't beat Cap hand to hand (doubt WM has an AI advanced enough to counter Cap's moves). Though granted WM never fired anything at Cap in Civil War.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Looks like everyone sees this as pretty one sided. I thought there would have been some kind of competition in an indoor environment given their close up tussles in Civil War, and how Tony's AI said he can't beat Cap hand to hand (doubt WM has an AI advanced enough to counter Cap's moves). Though granted WM never fired anything at Cap in Civil War.
Honestly, the AI bit was silly to me. Earlier, when they were going 1-on-1, he got Cap in a full mount and was beating on him, and Bucky had to intervene, and after repulsoring Cap (who had shield in hand no less), he engaged Bucky in H2H and was arguably getting the better of the exchange until he tried to use a repulsor beam (which Bucky somehow managed to force upwards with his human arm, even though the same arm of Tony caught a metal arm punch earlier in the fight). And all without any mentions or indications of AI intervention. I know Cap is a more skilled H2H fighter, but they did a rather shit job of showcasing that, only pulling the AI fight scan thing at the end of the fight, after Tony had already managed to hold his own pretty well against both of them before that.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Honestly, the AI bit was silly to me.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Earlier, when they were going 1-on-1, he got Cap in a full mount and was beating on him, and Bucky had to intervene, and after repulsoring Cap (who had shield in hand no less), he engaged Bucky in H2H and was arguably getting the better of the exchange until he tried to use a repulsor beam.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And all without any mentions or indications of AI intervention. I know Cap is a more skilled H2H fighter, but they did a rather shit job of showcasing that, only pulling the AI fight scan thing at the end of the fight, after Tony had already managed to hold his own pretty well against both of them before that.
Though I am a little miffed that you agree to all this now when last year you were dismissing them when I made pretty much the same points "sniff" 🙁
Originally posted by KingD19
Basically, if War Machine uses anything other than Repulsors and non-lethal ordinance, Cap is in trouble. He can only turtle behind the shield, and explosives will deal with that.
Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
[B]Though I am a little miffed that you agree to all this now when last year you were dismissing them when I made pretty much the same points "sniff" 🙁 [/B]
It's not so much dismissing them as acknowledging that there were plot elements involved as well. For example, Tony being mentally compromised for the fight (something I did also bring up back then) was confirmed by the Russos during the Director's commentary. They pointed out that Tony fought in blind anger, not tactically, which is why he kept trying to close the distance and physically assault Bucky, instead of just laser his head off from a distance. And that he wasn't so much interested in physically hurting Cap as much as hurting him mentally. As the Russos put it, the betrayal about his parents hit Tony hard, and he felt that it destroyed his and Steve's friendship. So, he wanted to take Bucky away from Steve to hurt him in a similar manner.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's not so much dismissing them as acknowledging that there were plot elements involved as well. For example, Tony being mentally compromised for the fight (something I did also bring up back then) was confirmed by the Russos during the Director's commentary. They pointed out that Tony fought in blind anger, not tactically, which is why he kept trying to close the distance and physically assault Bucky, instead of just laser his head off from a distance. And that he wasn't so much interested in physically hurting Cap as much as hurting him mentally. As the Russos put it, the betrayal about his parents hit Tony hard, and he felt that it destroyed his and Steve's friendship. So, he wanted to take Bucky away from Steve to hurt him in a similar manner.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, the movie did really seem to push a button. 😛
Originally posted by Surtur
Then again IM was bloodlusted and still couldn't take out 2 super soldiers.
Tony never used any kind of heavy weaponry against Cap. He specifically used non-lethal things, like those crappy leg cuffs he shot at him. And, as already mentioned, the Russos pointed out that Tony's bloodlust made him fight more stupidly (choosing to go for H2H despite having a massive ranged advantage), not any more efficiently. And then he still pretty much only lost because of a last ditch effort by Cap, courtesy of a distraction from Bucky. And only because Iron Man paused in his assault to ask Cap to stop fighting. He actually seemed to have calmed down somewhat by the end. After he blew off Bucky's arm, he could have missiles/lasered him etc. but chose to just blast him out of the way with a repulsor. And he actively stopped beating the shit out of Cap to ask him to stand down.
And, as pointed out, Rhodey had a more durable suit. Impacts from things like Redwing and Clint's explosive arrows (which were massively watered down compared to previous films) were damaging the IM suit, whereas getting hit by an exploding gas truck just pissed Rhodey off.