Re: Re: Darth Bane vs Fae Coven
Originally posted by SunRazer
Do you disagree with my assessment, my child?
I'm not sure I agree with you on the idea that it's meant to illustrate Fae's superiority to Yoda, or that it can be scaled to other mediums. Yoda is canonically stronger than Fae. I believe it's just an outlier.
Being more powerful and being better at telekinesis are different things. Fae could've just been insanely talented at TK.
On the other hand, it also mentions that Fae could only manage it after long periods of meditation. Yoda's telekinetic powers in the heat of the moment could still be superior.
EDIT: Actually, Yoda's commentary in The Jedi Path was from around 115BBY per Jason Fry, IIRC. So by the PT era, he may have opted to hone his telekinetic powers again and become stronger for it. I don't believe any of Yoda's supremacy accolades come until around the PT era, so it's not impossible to reconcile all of this.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Being more powerful and being better at telekinesis are different things. Fae could've just been insanely talented at TK.On the other hand, it also mentions that Fae could only manage it after long periods of meditation. Yoda's telekinetic powers in the heat of the moment could still be superior. Then you can argue that the time Yoda passed 700 coincided with Tenebrous' Master and successive Banite Sith Lords ****ing around with the Force, though it'd be a stretch to say that it impacted on his ability to meditate and connect with the Force.
How large are the stones?
Edit: NVM
Originally posted by SunRazer
Being more powerful and being better at telekinesis are different things. Fae could've just been insanely talented at TK.On the other hand, it also mentions that Fae could only manage it after long periods of meditation. Yoda's telekinetic powers in the heat of the moment could still be superior.
EDIT: Actually, Yoda's commentary in The Jedi Path was from around 115BBY per Jason Fry, IIRC. So by the PT era, he may have opted to hone his telekinetic powers again and become stronger for it. I don't believe any of Yoda's supremacy accolades come until around the PT era, so it's not impossible to reconcile all of this.
Fair points, although a bit too much on the speculative side of things
Originally posted by SunRazer
Being more powerful and being better at telekinesis are different things. Fae could've just been insanely talented at TK.On the other hand, it also mentions that Fae could only manage it after long periods of meditation. Yoda's telekinetic powers in the heat of the moment could still be superior.
EDIT: Actually, Yoda's commentary in The Jedi Path was from around 115BBY per Jason Fry, IIRC. So by the PT era, he may have opted to hone his telekinetic powers again and become stronger for it. I don't believe any of Yoda's supremacy accolades come until around the PT era, so it's not impossible to reconcile all of this.
So Yoda started stagnating due to age when he hit 700 and due to a lack of telekentic practice
Then at 115 bby In response to his inability to lift more than 6 stones, yoda was prompted to restart or ramp up telekentic training.
If we go composite canon has already set precedent for yoda undergoing a massive growth spurt with him going from being unable to lift boulders(due to the hindrance of the stones) to holding in place a living mountain in a matter of days iirc.
Originally posted by Azronger
Fair points, although a bit too much on the speculative side of things
All I'm saying is that it's no stretch to reconcile all of it, especially since Yoda is only Fae's factual superior by RotS. By which time we know he can lift more than the weight of 5 Muntuur Stones anyway.
Regardless, it seems like we've established that Fae ragdolls Bane here. 👆
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Well he did start "losing a step" at 700.How large are the stones?
Edit: NVM
The latest source to discuss the issue is The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, which claims that each of them weigh over five metric tons.
Unless Nexus of Power provides specifications for them, that is, but I don't believe it does.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Running with this idea...So Yoda started stagnating due to age when he hit 700 and due to a lack of telekentic practice
Then at 115 bby In response to his inability to lift more than 6 stones, yoda was prompted to restart or ramp up telekentic training.
If we go composite canon has already set precedent for yoda undergoing a massive growth spurt with him going from being unable to lift boulders(due to the hindrance of the stones) to holding in place a living mountain in a matter of days iirc.
I didn't say Yoda was prompted to improve because of his failure to lift the Stones or that he started training to improve as of 115 BBY.
The most plausible explanation would be that the reemergence of the Sith prompted him to hone his powers again and his spiritual journey in TCW, along with other trials and tribulations, would've enhanced his powers also.
Rereading what you posted, the are in the pictures are just "small replicas"
Regardless if we just consider anyone with factual statements indicating they're more powerful to be exempted(yoda, mace, dooku) from the scaling due
to
A. more powerful
B. them possibly being able to lift the stones afterwards(with mace/dooku coming into the order well after the quote)
We could take the quote to indicate that before yoda/mace/dooku, she was the 4th most powerful jedi in the order's history or at least as long as the stones have been around(which it would be nice if there was a quote for).
Anyhow, her impressing yoda with her tk is a nice accolade anyway
Originally posted by SunRazer
I didn't say Yoda was prompted to improve because of his failure to lift the Stones or that he started training to improve as of 115 BBY.The most plausible explanation would be that the reemergence of the Sith prompted him to hone his powers again and his spiritual journey in TCW, along with other trials and tribulations, would've enhanced his powers also.
Well, they were certainly around by Fae's time. So the quote suggests that Fae had the best record with the Muntuur Stones from the end of the New Sith Wars (when she became Grand Master) up until the writing of The Jedi Path, which was published in its third edition in 115 BBY (which is the one that we're looking at).
Couldn't find the section on the Muntuur Stones in Nexus of Power in my brief skim through it, but it's safe to say that as of the writing of The Jedi Path, Fae's lifting of six Stones was considered unprecedented, with Yoda lifting six also before reaching the age of 700. Ferleen Snee was reputed to be the only one who lifted all seven, but again, there was no date available for that.
The only question is how long the Stones have been used as practice by the Jedi, as you said. Unfortunately I can't answer that as of now. If someone manages to find the part with the Muntuur Stones in Nexus of Power, they might be able to tell you.
But as you said, the fact that Yoda was impressed by her feat of telekinesis is no small accolade in of itself.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, they were certainly around by Fae's time. So the quote suggests that Fae had the best record with the Muntuur Stones from the end of the New Sith Wars (when she became Grand Master) up until the writing of The Jedi Path, which was published in its third edition in 115 BBY (which is the one that we're looking at).Couldn't find the section on the Muntuur Stones in Nexus of Power in my brief skim through it, but it's safe to say that as of the writing of The Jedi Path, Fae's lifting of six Stones was considered unprecedented, with Yoda lifting six also before reaching the age of 700. Ferleen Snee was reputed to be the only one who lifted all seven, but again, there was no date available for that.
The only question is how long the Stones have been used as practice by the Jedi, as you said. Unfortunately I can't answer that as of now. If someone manages to find the part with the Muntuur Stones in Nexus of Power, they might be able to tell you.
But as you said, the fact that Yoda was impressed by her feat of telekinesis is no small accolade in of itself.
Ferleen Snee? There's another one?
Really all we need here is someone to scale off. It should put fae, at least telekentically above any of the jedi who bane and zannah faced.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Ferleen shee?Ferleen Snee? There's another one?
Really all we need here is someone to scale off. It should put fae, at least telekentically above any of the jedi who bane and zannah faced.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ferleen_Snee
For the record, only "masters of telekinesis" could lift four. You can imagine the disparity between each stone if Yoda only managed five, although we don't really know the full extent of 115BBY Yoda's powers.
Well apparently per "galaxy guide 9" the stones were at least collectively larger than a sail barge though we have no idea by how much i guess.
Also apparently it is stated somewhere they were inspiredof the gardens of talla which were apparently destroyed around 3000 something bby
This is all wookiepedia so take the above with a grain of salt
Nope, it's all sourced information. Reliable.
The Gardens were destroyed in 3,996 BBY, but the Muntuur Stones were only inspired by them, so that doesn't give us a precise date. According to that wiki page, Nexus of Power states that the Muntuur Stones were around by 4000 BBY? That was when Kun was training.