Leland Chee on Game Mechanics

Game mechanics are designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created. They can serve to provide a scale from which to compare how one character or piece of technology stacks up against another. Because RPGs use dice, there is always the element of random chance involved, which isn't quite applicable to a book.

But stats themselves aren't created randomly; they are based on what is already known. As such, we can always look to them as a basis when writing books. I often look to RPG stats to see for example, what type of Force powers a character may have. Or if we haven't determined the stats of a particular vehicle, we can look to RPG stats for a basis of comparison.

Conversely, I think it would be a determinent if books were artificially limited by game stats. So I would agree that a book is going to overrule a stat if there is a contradiction.

Revan's domination over the strike team is legit, since as per Chee, game mechanics can be used to gauge how characters stack against each other.

So are Jensyn and Soverus' dominations, I assume? And Malgus' "number of people fighting me minus one" domination? And Baras being able to one-shot the Wrath if he's given time to gather his power, despite it being made clear that there's canonically a hilarious gap between Baras and the Wrath in power? Where do you draw the line?

Though I thought you believed in Revan's domination as legit anyway, so what's the point of this? Hoping to sway one or two more users to believe in it? lol

Regardless, the context of the quote appears to be RPG stats and other specifically RPG mechanics, not just any game mechanics. So that's a nope. 👆

Bingo.

Originally posted by SunRazer
So are Jensyn and Soverus' dominations, I assume?

And Malgus' "number of people fighting me minus one" domination?

And Baras being able to one-shot the Wrath if he's given time to gather his power, despite it being made clear that there's canonically a hilarious gap between Baras and the Wrath in power?

Since when is there a big gap between them, lmfao? So yeah, he can.

Regardless, the context of the quote appears to be RPG stats and other specifically RPG mechanics, not just any game mechanics. So that's a nope. 👆

RPG stats and the like are featured within video-games. There's no contradiction.

1. So sub-Marr chars can ragdoll the main characters? And the HoT is suggested in their storyline to be the strongest Jedi by Act II, so apparently sub-Act II HoT characters can ragdoll the Sith protags on a DS nexus.

Congratulations, you've shown that the protags are hilariously inconsistent and now dominating them isn't even that much of a feat.

2. What?

3. Since the Wrath stood in perfect health whilst Baras couldn't even conjure Lightning and lamented that "my powers abandon me". Which means Baras has far less power.

4. Except this isn't an RPG stat or RPG-related mechanic. This is a game mechanic that has nothing to do with RPG's at all. You're really reaching hard here.

If you're going to pretend that this is the type of game mechanic being referred to by Chee, you should consider the fact that Chee outright says that with game mechanics, "there is always the element of random chance involved", which means that these ragdolls could've just been down to chance. 😂

1.) I consider them more powerful than any of the protagonists following Act III. The protags are more powerful prior.

2.) The quote saying game mechanics are canon unless it contradicts the story.

3. It's stated the Wrath won after a fierce battle. Baras' powers having abandoned him was because he lost.

4.) Game mechanics apply to a wide variety of things. The fact he gives specifics doesn't change anything, lmfao.

No, he says with dice, chance is involved, retard. The ragdolling is scripted, btw. It cannot happen by chance - it will always happen.

Also, I'm not sure you realize how big of a deal it is that RPG stats within sourcebooks are considered fair-game.

Revan, Traya, and Kun are legitimate contenders to Palpatine, although inferior.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Baras' powers having abandoned him was because he lost.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
1.) I consider them more powerful than any of the protagonists following Act III. They're more powerful prior.

2.) The quote saying game mechanics are canon unless it contradicts the story.

3. It's stated the Wrath won after a fierce battle. Baras' powers having abandoned him was because he lost.

4.) Game mechanics apply to a wide variety of things. The fact he gives specifics doesn't change anything, lmfao.

No, he says with dice, chance is involved, retard. The ragdolling is scripted, btw. It cannot happen by chance - it will always happen.

1. WTF are you talking about?

2. RPG mechanics, yeah. Which this isn't.

3. Sidious beat Maul after a "fierce battle". That means nothing, lol. Baras was completely exhausted while the Wrath stood there in perfect health. In other words, the Wrath's reserves are far greater.

4. The fact that you're cherry-picking isolated sections of text and taking them out-of-context to suit your ends is laughable, indeed.

5. Hence the Revan ragdolling isn't encompassed by Chee's quote. Thanks for following me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also, I'm not sure you realize how big of a deal it is that RPG stats within sourcebooks are considered fair-game.

Revan, Traya, and Kun are legitimate contenders to Palpatine, although inferior.

Traya isn't competing with Palpatine if Revan is stomping her, lmfao. Not to mention that there will end up being a lot of contradictions with game mechanics. Like, isn't Palpatine's strength 11 in The Dark Side Sourcebook? ****ing Kreia's stronger at 12 strength per KotORCG. And per KotORCG, Traya has higher constitution, intelligence and wisdom than Darth Revan. 😂

EDIT: Per KotORCG and DSS, Traya has Darth Sidious beat in all stats. 😂 😂 😆

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. WTF are you talking about?

The protags were surpassed by them between the ending of Act III and the Revanite conflict.

2. RPG mechanics, yeah. Which this isn't.

Yeah, and SWTOR has RPG mechanics. It's a ****ing MMORPG.

3. Sidious beat Maul after a "fierce battle". That means nothing, lol. Baras was completely exhausted while the Wrath stood there in perfect health. In other words, the Wrath's reserves are far greater.

I completely disagree with that interpretation, lol.

Seems to me like the Wrath won after a brutal confrontation.

Traya isn't competing with Palpatine if Revan is stomping her, lmfao. Not to mention that there will end up being [b]a lot of contradictions with game mechanics. Like, isn't Palpatine's strength 11 in The Dark Side Sourcebook? ****ing Kreia's stronger at 12 strength per KotORCG. 😂

Firstly, why can we never have a conversation without you saying retarded shit?

It's genuinely annoying talking to you.

For one, the roleplaying mechanics of DSS and KotORCG are completely different, lmfao.

One's a d6 and the other's a d20, I believe, so the stats aren't translatable. They're scaled different.

I'm not that big into roleplaying and even I know that, rofl.

Off to bed. It's 2am.

Closing thoughts:

No clue why the fact it's electronic means that it's no longer counted. It's still an RPG.

1. The protags are younger and are already much stronger, meaning that they have far more potential. The protags would grow much, much faster than Jensyn or Soverus.

You think they go from being sub-Act II HoT to being able to dominate all of the SoR Imp protags on a DS nexus? Jesus Christ.

2. Right, and this mechanic here isn't an RPG mechanic. Just because it's in a MMORPG doesn't mean all the game mechanics are RPG mechanics. Not hard to understand. 😬

3. Brutal enough for him to stand there in fine condition whilst Baras was completely depleted? lol

4. Ah, I thought it was d20. Not that comparing Palpatine to other characters in DSS makes it much better, lol. Not to mention that Palpatine's highest stat is INT (which is skills) rather than WIS (which is Force powers, IIRC). We've also got Hethrir being stronger than Vader in WIS.

Anyway, I gave you an example of Traya beating Revan in CON, INT and WIS in the same book (KotORCG). You seem to have no counter for that. There goes your argument about Revan having more willpower (WIS). And Malak has more charisma than Revan. GG.

EDIT: The Dark Side Sourcebook is d20, as I thought. It's from WotC after all. Traya beats Palpatine in all stats. 😂 😂 😂 😆 😆 😆

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan's domination over the strike team is legit, since as per Chee, game mechanics can be used to gauge how characters stack against each other.

Ant, you do know the difference between an RPG and MMORPG or a JRPG, right?

Game mechanics are designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created.

The primary objective of game mechanics is to offer entertainment to the player, as the quote estabilishes. To follow continuity is a loose, secondary objective. They aren't canon at all.

Originally posted by SunRazer
EDIT: The Dark Side Sourcebook is d20, as I thought. It's from WotC after all. Traya beats Palpatine in all stats. 😂 😂 😂 😆 😆 😆

They are mere scrubs if compared to GodBane from SAGA. 😉

Besides, at no point does he say stats are canon. He says the writers might look to them for inspiration at times but specifically places them below canon material. I mean at most, something like the powers the character knows or something might be usable in a thread but passing off the STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA stats as legit comparisons is hilariously wrong.

Though I'm curious to see if Ant still believes they're legit.

I don't see why force powers know are more trustworthy than the stats. I think once you touch character sheet you either scrap everything there or treat any information as factual.

That was me taking it to the extreme; that maximum leniency I could imagine. But you're right; then you reach conclusions like Malak and Traya being able to Drain people across star systems. So you might as well scrap it all.