Superman (DC Rebirth) vs Superman (Kingdom Come)

Originally posted by Galan007
Of course he has low showings. Every character does. This doesn't change the staggering frequency of his not just high-end...but ridiculously high-end...feats, however. Point being: KC Superman may have been superior to pre-Flashpoint Supes, but so was DCnU Supes(and by a significant margin), imo... Again, this is important because we now know that DCnU Supes has always been significantly weakened -- his cumulative essence(and therefore power) was literally split in two.

-Ripping Doomsday in half? Weakened.
-Combating Phantom Stranger? Weakened.
-Contending with Darkseid and forcing him back? Weakened.
-Easily pressing earth weight for days on end, w/o any sunlight replenishing him? Weakened.
-Pushing half of a ship that was dozens of times larger than earth? Weakened.
-Tanking attacks from a universal+ being(and fighting evenly with her)? Weakened.

...And the list goes on...and on...and on.

Now that he's merged(ie. Post-Rebirth), I think my opinion that he is superior to KC Superman is rather self-explanatory. Imho: post-Rebirth Supes >> DCnU Supes ~/> KC Supes > pre-flashpoint Supes. /shrug

As for the Mxy feat: I am not overstating it at all. Mxy's Infinite Planet was literally tailor made to fcuk with Superman -- each one of the endless scenarios represented an entirely different universe. To escape this 'life trap' of Mxy's, Superman literally had to break out of it -- he literally had to punch through the universal boundaries/walls within the Infinite Planet... We actually SAW him do this.

I'll be honest; I was very much on the side of Preboot Superman being the more powerful. What changed my mind was that all of the N52 Superman stuff happened in an incredibly small space of time, so he didn't have the chance to average out like a lot of characters do.

Add that to him being weakened, and it's hard to argue against it imo.

-Ripping Doomsday in half? Weakened. Context
-Combating Phantom Stranger? Weakened. Major context
-Contending with Darkseid and forcing him back? Weakened. Major context
-Easily pressing earth weight for days on end, w/o any sunlight replenishing him? Weakened. He did
-Pushing half of a ship that was dozens of times larger than earth? Weakened. He did
-Tanking attacks from a universal+ being(and fighting evenly with her)? Weakened. Never happened

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'll be honest; I was very much on the side of Preboot Superman being the more powerful. What changed my mind was that all of the N52 Superman stuff happened in an incredibly small space of time, so he didn't have the chance to average out like a lot of characters do.

Add that to him being weakened, and it's hard to argue against it imo.

Basically, merged Superman = Pre-Flashpoint Superman [and 10+ years of additional power] + New 52 Superman [stronger than PFP, imo].

That's...quite something.

Originally posted by carver9
If pre flash point Superman is a 100 and he was split and it took him to a 85 or 90. He then merge back with himself and become a 100 again and was weaker than KC Superman when he was a 100, how is he more powerful now. I honestly don't think people get it. The Superman we seen before the reboot was whole, DCNU Superman was a part of Pre Superman. Now that he is whole again, he is back at his previous power level which was weaker than than KC Superman. He didn't receive an amp folks.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Let's not forget that by the time of the merge, Pre-Flashpoint Superman was already more than a decade older than what he was last time we saw him just prior to Flashpoint, soaking up power from the sun all that time, getting more powerful as he got older.

Basically, merged Superman = Pre-Flashpoint Superman [and 10+ years of additional power] + New 52 Superman [stronger than PFP, imo].

That's...quite something.

Oh, I agree. I just hope that we get to see less of the... I don't want to call it immaturity, but for the longest time I thought N52 Superman was written pretty strangely.

Hopefully this merged one is better off.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thing is, KC Superman was superior to pre-Flashpoint Superman. Personally, I believe that DCnU Superman's 'average' outclasses even his pre-Flashpoint counterpart(abhi and Phil might kill me for saying that, lol.) I mean, in just a few years time, DCnU Supes racked up a plethora of laughably high-end feats -- he has such a great frequency of these extremely uber showings, in fact, that it would honestly be very difficult to *intelligibly*(key word) restrict his 'average' to the herald-tier... Pressing earth-weight for dayS on end w/o the presence of sunlight, and moving a ship that was dozenS of times larger than earth, is just the tip of the iceberg really. Just before the merger, for example, Supes shattered through the numerous...dare I say infinite...dimensional walls/barriers of Mxy's 'Infinite Planet', like cheap tissue paper... And just recently he tanked repeated blasts/attacks from, and proceeded to contend evenly with, Molly -- a being who was channeling the combined powers of: the Speed Force, the magics of ancient Atlantis, the Green Lantern CPB, and f*cking time itself. So yeah...

Tbh, the fact that DCnU Supes did all of that(and SO much more), in a significantly weakened state, is mind-boggling. So in answer to your question: is KC Supes > post-Rebirth Supes..? My overwhelming surge of deductive reasoning simply will not allow me to believe that(even though KC Supes is one of my all-time favs.) I believe post-Rebirth Superman is about the most powerful [unamped] iteration of the character we've ever seen.

Again, this is all just my opinion -- though it is certainly not without logic/reason, even if you disagree. 🙂

Originally posted by carver9
-Ripping Doomsday in half? Weakened. Context
-Combating Phantom Stranger? Weakened. Major context
-Contending with Darkseid and forcing him back? Weakened. Major context
-Easily pressing earth weight for days on end, w/o any sunlight replenishing him? Weakened. He did
-Pushing half of a ship that was dozens of times larger than earth? Weakened. He did
-Tanking attacks from a universal+ being(and fighting evenly with her)? Weakened. Never happened

As for the final feat: yes, it absolutely DID happen. Molly was channeling the power of the Speed Force+Green Lantern CPB+all Atlantean magic+the timeflow of the entire universe. She became enraged. She blasted Superman multiple times. He soaked each blast... But I don't expect you to have read the most recent issue of JL, because you don't read comics. This whole f*cktard routine of yours is getting old, carv. 🙂

Originally posted by deathslash
Once the feats start coming [...]

Originally posted by Galan007
Any 'context' behind the feats I mentioned do not lessen what Superman did in any way. Stop talking about shit you are clueless about, lol.

As for the final feat: yes, it absolutely DID happen. Molly was channeling the power of the Speed Force+Green Lantern CPB+all Atlantean magic+the timeflow of the entire universe. She became enraged. She blasted Superman multiple times. He soaked each blast... But I don't expect you to have read the most recent issue of JL, because you don't read comics. This whole f*cktard routine of yours is getting old, carv. 🙂

Read the comic. I can send you a PM of the entire thing if you want plus all of the other comics from last week. Let me know.

Anyways, Superman was nearly out in the first attack and even though she possessed that power, remember, that does not mean she was using it against Superman. Remember me and your discussion about Onslaught vs Hulk? When I brought up to you about him possessing Franklin Richards, Xman, and Magneto power? What did you say? That applies here as well. Along with the fact that Superman was saying that her attacks was getting weaker and that she was holding back in fear of damaging the area. It's like me saying Thor is uber powerful because he withstood attacks from an angry Celestial. Glory. A pissed Odin. Cracked the skull of Galactus...etc, etc...

Let me know if you need that PM.

Superman is just a cut above everyone now. Insane showings.

Originally posted by Zack M
Superman is just a cut above everyone now. Insane showings.

👆

Yet some peps just need butt hurt cream.

Originally posted by carver9
-Ripping Doomsday in half? Weakened. Context
-Combating Phantom Stranger? Weakened. Major context
-Contending with Darkseid and forcing him back? Weakened. Major context
-Easily pressing earth weight for days on end, w/o any sunlight replenishing him? Weakened. He did
-Pushing half of a ship that was dozens of times larger than earth? Weakened. He did
-Tanking attacks from a universal+ being(and fighting evenly with her)? Weakened. Never happened

I WARNED YOU DIDN'T I?

IT IS NOW 8:36 PM EST.

YOU NOW HAVE 24HRS TO DRAG YOUR GAMMITE, CARCASS, OUT AND LEAVE THIS SITE FOR 7 DAYS!!!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
[B]I WARNED YOU DIDN'T I?

IT IS NOW 8:36 PM EST.

YOU NOW HAVE 24HRS TO DRAG YOUR GAMMITE, CARCASS, OUT AND LEAVE THIS SITE FOR 7 DAYS!!! [/B]

😂 😂 😂 😂

Your wish might come true...bada.

Originally posted by carver9
Read the comic. I can send you a PM of the entire thing if you want plus all of the other comics from last week. Let me know. .

Originally posted by carver9
Anyways, Superman was nearly out in the first attack and even though she possessed that power, remember, that does not mean she was using it against Superman.

1.) Molly's only priority was to DESTROY Superman and ALL super-powered beings throughout creation. She(and The Timeless) viewed them as an abomination --a threat to creation itself on a fundamental level-- and wanted them extinct at all costs. She made her intentions abundantly clear on multiple occasions... As did Tempus himself:

*Suggesting a character with that sort of nihilistic mentality(and whom was also enraged during the fight) would inextricably hold back against the very being(s) she sought to destroy is utterly laughable.

2.) It was only stated that Molly wasn't going all-out AFTER her connection to the Timeless' machines was severed -- which makes sense, as she was literally incapable of operating at full power:
http://i.imgur.com/GxHV4QO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/m70MXqA.jpg

3.) Prior to losing her connection to said power sources, however, Molly was clearly going all-out...

Superman soaked Molly's initial attacks without so much as a scratch to show for it:

Supes and Molly continued battling for a few more pages. The next time we see Superman, his suit is ripped a bit, but he's otherwise none the worse for wear:

*This is quite impressive considering her blasts also contained [extremely] high-level magics, in addition to the energy of the Speed Force AND the GL CPB.

Originally posted by carver9
Let me know if you need that PM.

#TheMoreYouKnow 😉

Originally posted by Galan007
Of course he has low showings. Every character does. This doesn't change the staggering frequency of his not just high-end...but ridiculously high-end...feats, however. Point being: KC Superman may have been superior to pre-Flashpoint Supes, but so was DCnU Supes(and by a significant margin), imo... Again, this is important because we now know that DCnU Supes has always been significantly weakened -- his cumulative essence(and therefore power) was literally split in two.

-Ripping Doomsday in half? Weakened.
-Combating Phantom Stranger? Weakened.
-Contending with Darkseid and forcing him back? Weakened.
-Easily pressing earth weight for days on end, w/o any sunlight replenishing him? Weakened.
-Pushing half of a ship that was dozens of times larger than earth? Weakened.
-Tanking attacks from a universal+ being(and fighting evenly with her)? Weakened.

...And the list goes on...and on...and on.

Now that he's merged(ie. Post-Rebirth), I think my opinion that he is superior to KC Superman is rather self-explanatory. Imho: post-Rebirth Supes >> DCnU Supes ~/> KC Supes > pre-Flashpoint Supes. /shrug

As for the Mxy feat: I am not overstating it at all. Mxy's Infinite Planet was literally tailor made to fcuk with Superman -- each one of the endless scenarios represented an entirely different universe. To escape this 'life trap' of Mxy's, Superman literally had to break out of it -- he literally had to punch out of the universal boundaries/walls within the Infinite Planet... We actually SAW him do this.

Now in regards to the Mxy showing....
I get all the parts where the trap was specifically built for and tailor made for him... Obviously.
I'm more concerned with the meat. I'm not convinced Mxy's infinite planet was a literal multiverse per se. It looked like an abstract representation of the different scenarios in his life that Mxy forced him to relive. As the process progressed, so did the loss of his memories. Scenario after scenario he was forced into until he said phukk it... I'm taking a short cut, prompting Mxy to accuse him of cheating.

Now the scene where Jon was having his first conversation with Mxy was not necessarily the same place. In fact it was a nexus(looked like one)to different realities as depicted with all the doorways/gateways that were illustrated and explained by Mxy. We know that Jon did escape that "nexus" after their little game, but was ultimately taken back to somewhere in "limbo". Not really sure he was back necessarily back in the same spot. Impossible to know for sure.

Now back to the infinite planet. Everything was so abstract and fluid similar to that limbo and nexus place(s). I can't say for sure it was a literal multiverse due to the abstract and psychedelic nature. If anything, it may have been a sort of mini dimension where all kinds of wacky shiet happens. It's Mxy after all.
I would characterize that as a feat of will. I guess. 😮

I think everone knows Galan is a respectable poster and Carver is a clown.

A somewhat entertaining clown but a clown non the less.

😂

@Galan...

Yes, Molly did want to destroy all of the super human's but she made it quite clear that she didn't want to damage the area of the fight. This was stated here...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/34778175/Justice_League_2016-_019-015.jpg.html

Also, look at your scan, first panel...Batman is obviously standing in the heart of this omni attack...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/34778174/Justice_League_2016-_019-006.jpg.html

...unless you believe Superman have a forcefield that circled the area (wtf).

Also, Jane survived an attack from a "universal" (no fts) being. Why are you not giving her credit? She was knocked out but she was physically ok afterwards.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/34778185/Justice_League_2016-_019-012.jpg.html

The same attack that had Superman straining to get up. If this was universal, he'll, solar system; let's bring it down further; planet busting power, she should have been turned to dust. It's like saying since Hercules survived an attack from Galactus, he have star system level durability. This is dumb.

Let's up this. She used the last bit of energy she had on Bruce.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/34778181/Justice_League_2016-_019-018.jpg.html

Threw everything she had at him. Why isn't this a ft for Bruce? Does this at least give him city level durability? Him fighting her is impressive...well, he wasn't fighting at all. He was getting his ass whipped. It impressive but so is this...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/136540/3089417-9568083783-ThorD.jpg

His fight with Odin...etc, etc... by the way, that Celestial was angry. Do you believe he was using all of his power on Thor? What about Onslaught? He wanted to rid the planet of everyone. That was his main goal. Did he use his universal power on Hulk? Surfer fought a pissed Galactus. Did Galactus use everything he had on Surfer? I'm trying to understand you bro.

I miss rao.

Originally posted by carver9
@Galan...

Yes, Molly did want to destroy all of the super human's but she made it quite clear that she didn't want to damage the area of the fight. This was stated here...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/34778175/Justice_League_2016-_019-015.jpg.html

Also, look at your scan, first panel...Batman is obviously standing in the heart of this omni attack...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/34778174/Justice_League_2016-_019-006.jpg.html

...unless you believe Superman have a forcefield that circled the area (wtf).

Also, Jane survived an attack from a "universal" (no fts) being. Why are you not giving her credit? She was knocked out but she was physically ok afterwards.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/34778185/Justice_League_2016-_019-012.jpg.html

The same attack that had Superman straining to get up. If this was universal, he'll, solar system; let's bring it down further; planet busting power, she should have been turned to dust. It's like saying since Hercules survived an attack from Galactus, he have star system level durability. This is dumb.

Let's up this. She used the last bit of energy she had on Bruce.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/34778181/Justice_League_2016-_019-018.jpg.html

Threw everything she had at him. Why isn't this a ft for Bruce? Does this at least give him city level durability? Him fighting her is impressive...well, he wasn't fighting at all. He was getting his ass whipped. It impressive but so is this...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/136540/3089417-9568083783-ThorD.jpg

His fight with Odin...etc, etc... by the way, that Celestial was angry. Do you believe he was using all of his power on Thor? What about Onslaught? He wanted to rid the planet of everyone. That was his main goal. Did he use his universal power on Hulk? Surfer fought a pissed Galactus. Did Galactus use everything he had on Surfer? I'm trying to understand you bro.

Going to any length to lowball, eh?