Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yes. We don't know how long those exchanges were. Sunrazer's wrong considering what I just posted. For that to be the case Fisto and the magnaguards would have had to agree to race to the other side of the maglev before they started fighting. Something that I personally do not find very likely.He replicated the style after analyzing it for a few seconds to an extremely accurate degree, to the point that Mace didn't want to prolong it for the feat of making Grievous even more deadly.
And even if your claim were true, what would Grievous's ability to process and replicate Mace's fighting style have to do with how well they did against each other in the fight?
And because he didn't want to allow Grievous more time to replicate his form
and couldn't defeat him in the time it would have taken CIS reinforcements to arrive.Dooku is the one who trained Grievous thus giving him an inherent advantage over the general. There's also the fact that Dooku has held back certain bits of knowledge on lightsaber combat from Grievous in case he ever decided to rebel against him.
2. And how is that?
He said the same about Cin Drallig who was two shot by Anakin and he said it when he was scolding Grievous for "disrespecting" lightsaber combat with his mechanical movements. Regardless, Mace and Grievous's and duel prove Dooku's assessment generally inaccurate.
A. First off, given grievous's insane processing speed, "a few seconds" would be ample time for grievous.
B. Second off, more importantly, you're utterly ignoring the context at play. It had nothing to do with grievous becoming more deadly. The reason he didn't want a prolonged engagement was because he had to rescue the chancellor, AND the thing they were fighting on was about to derail. All that proves is mace wouldn't have beaten grievous right then and there.
C. grievous's technique is derived from processing and replicating techniques and then executing everything he learns in a randomized and effecient manner. If Mace's technique is too advanced for grievous to copy, that mace is too skilled for grevious's computers to match him.
D. What are you basing that off?
E. Given that grevious would naturall's fighting styley, due to how is technique is derived, process whatever dooku is using and thus be incredibly familiar with dooku(or at least the parts of it dooku uses in his sparring sessions), I'd think that would go both ways.
F. I'm failing to see how knowledge grevious never got is relevant to grevious's capabilities as a fighter.
2, grevious as a machine, is too mechanical a fighter. So thus he would inevitably outmatched against force users who's force derived technique/skill are too much for his computers o process or imitate.
B. How does drallig getting stomped by anakin, a yoda/sidious level 9 fighter who would also stomp grevious, invalidate the quote? You realize that the one dude who dooku mentions who's duel with grevious had a decisive conclusion was kenobi, who, as dooku correctly predicted, put him beyond repair?
C. What? Grevious himself, based on his duel with mace, admitted dooku's assessment was correct.
What is the low-high tier nonsense... lol
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Galan is currently arguing Canon!Yoda takes WW Hulk, so there's that.The Ones are above Herald tier, but at the most wank possible, low Skyfather tier.
Based on feats, the Ones aren't above herald level. They just have some nice hax. Though if you take the destroy the universe nonsense seriously they are above Skyfather.
And yeah Yoda may be able to take out Hulk. But that's due to Hulk's limited powerset being a poor match rather than Yoda being more powerful.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'm taking the destroy the universe/ruin the Galaxy statements into account, along with assuming they can casually insta-shot the likes of DE Sidious, who's powers are well-documented.
Not that far fetched when they're literally living embodiments of a cosmic well...force
What about the force priestesses?
Star Wars characters range from street level to planet busters but its hard to scale them because the Force allows some to augment their damage output to herald level but their durability certainly is not anywhere near that.
Id say planet buster damage, building level durability; meaning what it would take to level a building a Sith/Jedi could tank
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. I'm not familiar enough with that specific text so I'll just drop that pointA. First off, given grievous's insane processing speed, "a few seconds" would be ample time for grievous.
B. Second off, more importantly, you're utterly ignoring the context at play. It had nothing to do with grievous becoming more deadly. The reason he didn't want a prolonged engagement was because he had to rescue the chancellor, AND the thing they were fighting on was about to derail. All that proves is mace wouldn't have beaten grievous right then and there.
C. grievous's technique is derived from processing and replicating techniques and then executing everything he learns in a randomized and effecient manner. If Mace's technique is too advanced for grievous to copy, that mace is too skilled for grevious's computers to match him.
D. What are you basing that off?
E. Given that grevious would naturall's fighting styley, due to how is technique is derived, process whatever dooku is using and thus be incredibly familiar with dooku(or at least the parts of it dooku uses in his sparring sessions), I'd think that would go both ways.
F. I'm failing to see how knowledge grevious never got is relevant to grevious's capabilities as a fighter.
2, grevious as a machine, is too mechanical a fighter. So thus he would inevitably outmatched against force users who's force derived technique/skill are too much for his computers o process or imitate.
B. How does drallig getting stomped by anakin, a yoda/sidious level 9 fighter who would also stomp grevious, invalidate the quote? You realize that the one dude who dooku mentions who's duel with grevious had a decisive conclusion was kenobi, who, as dooku correctly predicted, put him beyond repair?
C. What? Grevious himself, based on his duel with mace, admitted dooku's assessment was correct.
1. 👆
A. You can't know how efficiently it analyzed Mace's form compared to other fighting styles it had analyzed without a basis for comparison so your point is moot.
B. I'm aware of the other factors being reasons that Mace broke off their engagement. I'm just telling you that the text indicates the reason I gave you is one of the factors he broke off the engagement considering he had just commented on Grievous creating an excellent if imperfect copy of his fighting style.
C. Please provide support for your claim even having been indicated indicated let alone accurate.
D. Same as B. Mace is commenting on Grievous's ability to replicate his form albeit imperfectly before monologuing that he doesn't want to prolong the engagement. Seems indicative of not wanting to give Grievous more tools for his arsenal.
E. I'd imagine Dooku knows how Grievous's body and systems functions as well or possibly better then Grievous himself given he had the body and systems of Grievous's suit designed for him and would likely familiarize himself with its capabilities. Considering he believes holding back certain things from Grievous in regards to lightsaber combat to be a boon in his favor if he ever had to fight the General I'm inclined to side with his thoughts on the matter rather then your theory crafting.
F. It's relevant to Dooku's ability to combat him in relation to Mace's which is what you brought up.
2, given that didn't happen in his fight with Grievous and it was Mace tricking the sentient side of his brain into contradiction with the computer part by simultaneously creating an opening while making another movement, this claim is unfounded. Nothing suggests he had trouble "keeping up."
B. Kenobi was stated by Mace to be a better match up for Grievous then himself. I do not share your view of Anakin being Yoda/Sidious tier.
C. No he didn't. He said he understood Dooku's warning about Mace's skill. Not that he agreed with Dooku's assessment of his placement in comparison.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Force priestesses are unquantifiable.The Ones' collective limit, when wanking quotes to the max, is low-Skyfather tier (below Odin).
Taking things to the absolute max, the father at his peak is above abeloth who is capable of dominating both the son and the daughter who can "tear the fabric of the universe"
Odin has several multi-galaxy feats and a few universal feats as well. Whereas the Son/Daughter "tear the fabric of the universe," Odin in his fight with Seth "tears the fabric of the multiverse." So, at best, The Ones/Abeloth collectively at full power MIGHT be on par with Odin. Most likely not, though.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. 👆A. You can't know how efficiently it analyzed Mace's form compared to other fighting styles it had analyzed without a basis for comparison so your point is moot.
B. I'm aware of the other factors being reasons that Mace broke off their engagement. I'm just telling you that the text indicates the reason I gave you is one of the factors he broke off the engagement considering he had just commented on Grievous creating an excellent if an imperfect copy of his fighting style.
C. Please provide support for your claim even having been indicated let alone accurate.
D. Same as B. Mace is commenting on Grievous's ability to replicate his form albeit imperfectly before monologuing that he doesn't want to prolong the engagement. Seems indicative of not wanting to give Grievous more tools for his arsenal.
E. I'd imagine Dooku knows how Grievous's body and systems functions as well or possibly better then Grievous himself given he had the body and systems of Grievous's suit designed for him and would likely familiarize himself with its capabilities. Considering he believes holding back certain things from Grievous in regards to lightsaber combat to be a boon in his favor if he ever had to fight the General I'm inclined to side with his thoughts on the matter rather then your theory crafting.
F. It's relevant to Dooku's ability to combat him in relation to Mace's which is what you brought up.
2, given that didn't happen in his fight with Grievous and it was Mace tricking the sentient side of his brain into contradiction with the computer part by simultaneously creating an opening while making another movement, this claim is unfounded. Nothing suggests he had trouble "keeping up."
B. Kenobi was stated by Mace to be a better match up for Grievous then himself. I do not share your view of Anakin being Yoda/Sidious tier.
C. No he didn't. He said he understood Dooku's warning about Mace's skill. Not that he agreed with Dooku's assessment of his placement in comparison.
Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style, those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts. The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary. ―Labyrinth of Evil
All grevious was able to do was replicate it enough that it would prolong the engagement, thats it.
Additionally, Its explicitly stated in rots that the fight lasted a "single exchange":
Mace had told him how the computers slaved to Grievous's brain had apparently analzyed even Mace's unconventionally lethal Vaapad and had been able to respond in kind after a single exchange."He must have been trained by Count Dooku," Mace had said, "so you can expect Makashi as well; given the number of Jedi he has fought and slain, you must expect that he can attack in any style, or all of them. In fact, Obi-Wan, I believe that of all living Jedi, you have the best chance to defeat him."
Literally nothing in the text suggests that mace was scared about grievous;s ability to replicate his form. Given that Grievous was able to tot successfully analyze mace's form, and still failed to replicate,
I'd say the text disproves your claim.
All this says is Grievous could prolong the fight beyond a "single lightsaber exchange". Mace not wanting to continue because he had bigger fish to fry doesn't remotely suggest grievous stalemated him or was fighting evenly with him.
And if grievous doesn't have that knowledge vs Dooku, he wouldn't have it vs mace either
2.
A. It did happen, see above.
B. Not relevant to my point which is that when dooku's assessment was tested, it was right.
C. Your inability to accept authority is noted, but I'll be ignoring any judgments you base on your head canon regarding Anakin
D. You mean that that warning that mace would put grevious beyond repair if they had a full fight?
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
A. Actually, we can because its explicitly stated he successfully analyzed mace's form. In the same line it's also explicitly stated that he couldn't perfectly replicate it:All grevious was able to do was replicate it enough that it would prolong the engagement, thats it.
Additionally, Its explicitly stated in rots that the fight lasted a "single exchange":
Literally nothing in the text suggests that mace was scared about grievous;s ability to replicate his form. Given that Grievous was able to tot successfully analyze mace's form, and still failed to replicate,
I'd say the text disproves your claim.
All this says is Grievous could prolong the fight beyond a "single lightsaber exchange". Mace not wanting to continue because he had bigger fish to fry doesn't remotely suggest grievous stalemated him or was fighting evenly with him.
And if grievous doesn't have that knowledge vs Dooku, he wouldn't have it vs mace either
2.
A. It did happen, see above.
B. Not relevant to my point which is that when dooku's assessment was tested, it was right.
C. Your inability to accept authority is noted, but I'll be ignoring any judgments you base on your head canon regarding Anakin
D. You mean that that warning that mace would put grevious beyond repair if they had a full fight?
A. Successfully analyzing something isn't the same as analyzing every detail of something. Grievous's computer brain in no way was able to process the full extent of Mace's form yet it was enough to allow Grievous to create a decent imitation. If the computer had had longer to analyze it then it's only logical that it would have been an even better replica.
That's not what it says at all. Mace said he didn't want to prolong the engagement. Not that Grievous analyzing his form is all what allowed Grievous to last longer then he did. Your interpreting meaning that's not indicated let alone states.
Yes. We don't know how long the exchange lasted.
I beg to differ. Considering Mace mentions Grievous was capable of constructing a passable imitation of his form from their engagement and then comments that he doesn't want to prolong the fight in the same sentence, I believe it is indicative of him not wanting Grievous to be able to more fully analyze his form and as a result become even more deadly.
How exactly does it disprove my claim?
Considering neither gained an advantage in that fight despite Grievous being notably more hindered to a greater degree, I don't see why we'd assume Mace had the advantage.
But Mace doesn't know that and wouldn't know to exploit it like Dooku would.
2.
A. Nothing you posted above proves your claim.
B. Dooku's point in Drallig, which is what we're discussing, was never proven and it was outright shown to be wrong in regards to Mace.
C. What are you referring to here? You made a claim regarding Grievous's opinion that was wrong. He never states or thinks what you claimed.
D. Among others, yes.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Real talk, though, no one who Luke/Anakin are relative to is physically harming the galaxy, let alone the universe.
And Anakin happens to be an exception from the typical force user given his dad is literally the force itself
Not that the ones are universal(they aren't)