Quote by Nick Gillard states the tier systems were made by Lucas

"The fighting has evolved in these last three movies considerably," says Gillard. "George Lucas works on a system of levels. So, on The Phantom Menace Obi-Wan would have been like a level six or seven. Now that we're on Episode III he's actually a level eight. When you move up the levels, it affects the style of fighting."

Found this on a 2005 TheForce.net post. Apparently from a homing beacon article.

^ Yes have read that before, but couldn't find it when people were asking for proof Lucas was involved.

But tbh it's common sense that he must have been.

Great find 👆

Ant do me a favor and post your message from Gillard here that Maul and Dooku were 8's. It will then be easier to locate for board members given the thread title.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ant do me a favor and post your message from Gillard here that Maul and Dooku were 8's. It will then be easier to locate for board members given the thread title.

"Dooku & Maul are 8, but there is a huge difference inside the numbers themselves. It's not about how well they fight, it's about how well they learned." -Nick Gallard

Originally posted by Tondemonai
"Dooku & Maul are 8, but there is a huge difference inside the numbers themselves. It's not about how well they fight, it's about how well they learned." -Nick Gallard

Thanks but I'd prefer the image of the message for when people ask for the source.

People love to ignore the "huge difference inside the numbers themselves" part

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
People love to ignore the "huge difference inside the numbers themselves" part

Not really. But what you're forgetting is Gillard was talking about TPM Maul being an 8. So even if we assume he meant "low 8", that would still likely power scale TCW/SOD Maul to a mid-high 8.

What? No it wouldn't. Maul can grow and still be a low 8. Mace is better than Dooku, both are high 8's.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
What? No it wouldn't. Maul can grow and still be a low 8.

Lol Unlikely.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Mace is better than Dooku, both are high 8's.

Nope, Mace is on the border of an 8 & 9, which is what makes Mace better than Dooku.

Doesn't that statement favor Maul, if anything. Dooku was an 8 after 6-7 decades of being a Jedi and another decade of apprenticeship under Sidious, after which even Yoda remarks Dooku grew powerful.

Maul was an 8 while barely out of his 20s.

^ 👆

And according to Rocky, Maul got tremendously more powerful by Rebels, so clearly a High 8 just like Mace!

Jokes aside though Maul getting cut in half and abandoned by Sidious at such a young age would have seriously slowed down his progress and capped his potential.

Maul is the Kwame Brown of the Sith, with the difference Maul actually had the talent and potential to be top tier. So, he's actually worse than Kwame. 😱

Maul haters can hate all they want. Won't change that he was confirmed as a level 8 even as of TPM.

And given Fisto was a 7, that puts Maul above the vast majority of Council Members.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Maul haters can hate all they want. Won't change that he was confirmed as a level 8 even as of TPM.

And given Fisto was a 7, that puts Maul above the vast majority of Council Members.

Lol Plo Koon and Shaak Ti be 7's too I guess.

Reti4 on suicide watch.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
What? No it wouldn't. Maul can grow and still be a low 8. Mace is better than Dooku, both are high 8's.

"There's a line of training through Darth Tyranus and Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anakin. You can follow that line, and there's an aggressive fault in that line. Mace isn't of that line, and that allows you to give him unique talents."

I'd wager Mace's unique ability is that he's able to move up levels without the aggressive fault. He can use the dark-side without being consumed by it.

Dooku can't move to a level 9. Dooku is just an 8. Not a high 8. Just an 8.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Completely unsupported. Mace is such a high 8 that he can flow fluidity into 9.

"There's a line of training through Darth Tyranus and Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anakin. You can follow that line, and there's an aggressive fault in that line. Mace isn't of that line, and that allows you to give him unique talents."

I'd wager Mace's unique ability is that he's able to move up levels without the aggressive fault. He can use the dark-side without being consumed by it.

Dooku can't move to a level 9. Dooku is just an 8. Not a high 8. Just an 8.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Maul haters can hate all they want. Won't change that he was confirmed as a level 8 even as of TPM.

Maul hate or not, there's nothing that ties maul to being close to dooku. And comparing feats/ performances vs the same characters shows that they aren't close to each other.

With Rebels Maul you could actually make an argument for maul>dooku.

Originally posted by Darth Thor And given Fisto was a 7, that puts Maul above the vast majority of Council Members.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Maul hate or not, there's nothing that ties maul to being close to dooku. And comparing feats/ performances vs the same characters shows that they aren't close to each other.

Not entirely true. Maul handled Savage much better. Not that I claimed Maul and Dooku were equals anyway.

Prime Maul should be roughly equal to ROTS Kenobi. So call that whatever type of 8 you want.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Fair enough, Dooku doesn't have to be a high 8. Not sure why not being able to go to 9 stops him from being a high 8 though, especially given all the 8's he has superiority over(kenobi, vos, grevious, tcw kenobi, tcw maul, tpm maul ect.)

Nothing puts Grievous at an 8 in Canon.

In Canon, He's confirmed by your boy Filoni to be < Ventress. And he already got beat by a 7 (Fisto).

That said, I have no issue placing him as a high 7.