Clone troopers vs Stormtroopers

Started by Selenial2 pages

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Inept?

Zenwolf has provided some pretty solid arguments for stormtroopers being underrated in the past, but as far as I can tell the superiority of clone troopers is established in the lore regardless of whether or not stormtroopers are elite or absolute shit

Not everything is aimed at you honey, though...

Originally posted by Emperordmb
however this is specifically 100 on 100, even numbers, whereas Palpatine was not opting for an army of less efficient soldiers that was the same size as the one he had before.

Source?

The clone troopers of the GAR were trained from birth to do nothing but be soldiers and grew up with their comrades, whereas imperial storm trooper training for recruits is only two years, and the clones grown in spaarti cylinders were grown to maturity in only a year and only given flash-training... I think the people in this thread are seriously underplaying the difference in the length and quality of the training the clone troopers of the Republic and the Stormtroopers of the Empire underwent... that's not even to mention the considerably greater combat experience your average clone trooper would have in comparison with your average stormtrooper given the clone army was fighting a full-scale war against an army that had them considerably outnumbered whereas the Empire was fighting a war against a Rebel Alliance they significantly outnumbered who usually resorted to guerrilla tactics against the Empire.

This seems like an entirely baseless and conjecture based argument however, you have zero factual evidence backing this up. Besides, as Wolf has said, after a certain amount of time training becomes routine not necessarily rapid advancement. The vast majority of the Clone's training regiment would also be fitness training, which doesn't require formal training, only the fittest and best soldiers were even accepted into the Stromtrooper academies.

You also don't seem to understand, or seem to take into account, the phenomenally different training regimens the Clones and Stormtroopers were subjected to. Believe it or not, time is not the be all end all of development, pushing yourself beyond your perceived limits is often far more advancing than pushing yourself close to your limits on a daily basis. To that end, Stormtroopers were trained under barbaric circumstances, on high gravity planets such as Carida that subjected their muscles to agonising weight until they adapted. Stormtroopers were killed left right and center during training, not stunned using dummy blaster rifles. The fact of the matter is Stormtroopers were expected to excel far beyond the capabilities of a Clone in their training stages or die, two years was enough to force that level of growth. This is idea is perhaps best manifested in the fact that B3 Ultra Battle Droids - considered a challenge for Windu and Tiin together - were training foes on Carida, these droids were designed to tear through Clones like knives through butter, and would never have been standard training targets during the Galactic Republic.

By all means, come at me with actual proof that one training regime is better than another, but the notion that the Clones had better training because it was longer is absolutely farcical.

Stormies squish.

Originally posted by deathslash
that was usually because they were out numbered 10-1. Just look at the feats of random clones for instance: Hevy soloed a few squads worth of droids before achieving his primary mission of blowing up the base that he was in (this happened after he downed a few commando droids btw), the clones on umbara took out a legitimate Jedi Master in the form of General Krell, Cut (a clone that wanted nothing to do with the war) soloed multiple commando droids on his own. All that without even bringing up the clone commandos.

1. This would be impressive if not for the little facts that battle droids are pretty dumb and their accuracy is based on a basic algorithm which gives them terrible accuracy I mean Hevy was literally just side stepping at one point, the opposition here aren't droids. Comparison to opponents, the Rebels were far better than battle droids.

2. Yeah, cause the 501st an elite legion of Clones are representation of your average Clone Trooper.

3. Damaged Commando Droids, it's not as impressive really. I mean the droids were easily taken out by a partial destroyed table and a chair.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
1. This would be impressive if not for the little facts that battle droids are pretty dumb and their accuracy is based on a basic algorithm which gives them terrible accuracy I mean Hevy was literally just side stepping at one point, the opposition here aren't droids. Comparison to opponents, the Rebels were far better than battle droids.

2. Yeah, cause the 501st an elite legion of Clones are representation of your average Clone Trooper.

3. Damaged Commando Droids, it's not as impressive really. I mean the droids were easily taken out by a partial destroyed table and a chair.

1. You're going to have to show me some stormtroopers that actually had good aim in order to put them above battle droids.

2. It's a good thing that Fives and Echo were considered to be among the worst of the clones (at one point, it was being considered whether or not to get rid of them) and we all know what they accomplished. You want me to bring up Cody, or Wolfe, or Gregor, or Ponds? Hell, a geriatric Rex is still a match for stormtroopers.

3. One man vs about eight partially damaged commando droids isn't impressive. 😐 How about you show me any normal stormtrooper that has a similar accolade.

While I'm at it, show me how stormtroopers win with their subpar tactics, non impressive weapons, and godawful aim.

Hell, even their armor is garbage in comparison to the clones.

Sel debating something that's not politics. What year is this?

Actually hold up, Total, what versions are we using here?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Actually hold up, Total, what versions are we using here?
average clone trooper (so no 501st legion or something) vs average stormy (so no 501, or inferno squad) if that's what u meant

Originally posted by Total Warrior
average clone trooper (so no 501st legion or something) vs average stormy (so no 501, or inferno squad) if that's what u meant

I mean what canon.

Ah, Disney canon

Originally posted by Total Warrior
Ah, Disney canon

Ew.

Ok then I retract literally everything I just said, Clones stomp this.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ew.

Ok then I retract literally everything I just said, Clones stomp this.

👆 glad we can come to an understanding.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ew.

Ok then I retract literally everything I just said, Clones stomp this.

Still debatable, we have a biased view because we see the good clones and the shit Stormtroopers (IE backwater planet soldiers or navy guards).

Don't forget TCW is the show that shows standard clones running out of cover to fight B-1 battle droids in a ****ing melee fight, and getting massacred etc.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Sel debating something that's not politics. What year is this?

I get nostalgic.

Originally posted by Selenial
Still debatable, we have a biased view because we see the good clones and the shit Stormtroopers (IE backwater planet soldiers or navy guards).

Don't forget TCW is the show that shows standard clones running out of cover to fight B-1 battle droids in a ****ing melee fight, and getting massacred etc.

I mean....I guess, but I just know that thanks to Rebels, Stormtroopers aren't going to be anywhere near their Legends incarnations. You know that with those showings, writers might go off of what was shown in Rebels and it's just....ew.

I mean what the hell kind of training was that in that one Rebels episode? That was deplorable. The commander did say

"In a few short weeks, you will leave as soldiers. Ready to serve your Emperor!"

Unless they have other training...that's what Disney has now and frankly with the way they treat the GE in other aspects...not expecting much. I have a hard time giving Canon the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the Empire.

Legends Storms would piss themselves laughing at such training. Imperial Army Troopers would piss themselves laughing too.

Clones had shown much better training qualities in Canon and just better overall frankly.