Originally posted by Deronn_solo
When?
The Guardian used his power to force the inhabitants of the world to live together peacefully. Humans, Psadans and Myneyrshi built a city to the southwest of Mount Tantiss, though their tensions never truly subsided.
--Databank: Wayland
Wayland's inhabitants had been brought together by C'baoth's twisted manipulation of the Force. They worshiped him, feared him, and looked to him almost as a god-or devil. With his departure, that combined society has begun to show signs of disintegration.
--Heir To The Empire Sourcebook
That was stated absolutely nowhere, lmao.
The tests on the cloned C'baoth were ultimately disappointing. The new version had all the powers of the original, but the speed with which he had been created had caused various fundamental faults.
--Fact File 86
That is of course assuming Joruus didn't grow after becoming a clone, but I have no reason to believe he did.
Originally posted by Azrongeruh-oh, DC takes another L. 🙁
The Guardian used his power to force the inhabitants of the world to live together peacefully. Humans, Psadans and Myneyrshi built a city to the southwest of Mount Tantiss, though their tensions never truly subsided.--Databank: Wayland
Wayland's inhabitants had been brought together by C'baoth's twisted manipulation of the Force. They worshiped him, feared him, and looked to him almost as a god-or devil. With his departure, that combined society has begun to show signs of disintegration.
--Heir To The Empire Sourcebook
The tests on the cloned C'baoth were ultimately disappointing. The new version had all the powers of the original, but the speed with which he had been created had caused various fundamental faults.
--Fact File 86
That is of course assuming Joruus didn't grow after becoming a clone, but I have no reason to believe he did.
Anyway, to continue on with my point, Jedi Dooku is more powerful than Jorus, and by proxy, Joruus:
On the other side of the galaxy, the Order's most gifted apprentice reached out to tap a lightsaber with the toe of his boot. Count Dooku grimaced.
--Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
"Hm." Yoda stirred again with his stick. "Then best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force?" He nodded. "Best of all, Dooku would be!" His eyes found the other Jedi, one by one: and one by one, they looked away. "Our great student!" Yoda's ears flexed, then drooped. "Our great failure."
--Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
Dooku grows more powerful as Tyranus, to the point where he possesses infinitely greater power, beyond his Jedi self's most spectacular fantasies:
Dooku could not argue. Not only had the Dark Lord introduced Dooku to realms of power beyond his most spectacular fantasies, but Sidious was also a political manipulator so subtle that his abilities might be considered to dwarf even the power of the dark side itself.
--Revenge of the Sith novelization
"I have spent the last ten years learning to use the power of the Dark Side. It gives me infinitely greater power."
--Dooku, Attack of the Clones script
So Dooku is "infinitely" more powerful than a guy who can control an entire planet's population. Maybe now it's clear why I have him winning so many of these matches.
Originally posted by slayne
Why are you taking Dooku's *opinion* on how much he grew as literal fact? He's one of the most arrogant characters in SW; it would be straight up asinine to do so.
I'm not taking the infinite or fantasies thing literally, obviously. What one needs to take away from those accolades is that Dooku grew a lot during his time as a Sith. And Dooku may be arrogant, but he's not retarded lmao. He knows how much he has grown in relation to his past self, and dismissing those statements simply because they're character opinions is even more asinine.
They aren't the crux of the argument anyway, but rather the planet feats themselves are. Dooku's vast inferiors are planetary, and so is Dooku himself.
Originally posted by Azronger
The Guardian used his power to force the inhabitants of the world to live together peacefully. Humans, Psadans and Myneyrshi built a city to the southwest of Mount Tantiss, though their tensions never truly subsided.--Databank: Wayland
Wayland's inhabitants had been brought together by C'baoth's twisted manipulation of the Force. They worshiped him, feared him, and looked to him almost as a god-or devil. With his departure, that combined society has begun to show signs of disintegration.
--Heir To The Empire Sourcebook
The tests on the cloned C'baoth were ultimately disappointing. The new version had all the powers of the original, but the speed with which he had been created had caused various fundamental faults.
--Fact File 86
That is of course assuming Joruus didn't grow after becoming a clone, but I have no reason to believe he did.
1. None of your quotes state any sort of mental domination was used, like, at all, lal. He just used his immense Force power to rule with an iron fist - the same way a dictator uses his military powers to manipulate everyone in order, and force with they see as "peace" onto everyone else. That doesn't imply a Sadam, or Kim Jong-un literally mind controls anyone. If you actually read The Thrawn Trilogy, you would see a noticeably more powerful and skilled C'baoth [as compared to when he first ruled over Wayland] show signs of struggle with mentally dominating as few as 37,000 people, and earlier had struggles manipulating 20,000 more - so you're now gonna tell me a noticeably weaker version, was able to mind dominate, 20 + million, a feat of astronomical more significance, casually?
2. Yes, Joruus was a disappointment because he was a mentally unstable and batshit crazy, that instability, making him borderline impossible to keep in check, or make of any use - nowhere in your text does it state he was inferior in power- in fact, the quote literally states he possessed all the powers of the original version.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
1. None of your quotes state any sort of mental domination was used, like, at all, lal. He just used his immense Force power to rule with an iron fist - the same way a dictator uses his military powers to manipulate everyone in order, and force with they see as "peace" onto everyone else. That doesn't imply a Sadam, or Kim Jong-un literally mind controls anyone. If you actually read The Thrawn Trilogy, you would see a noticeably more powerful and skilled C'baoth [as compared to when he first ruled over Wayland] show signs of struggle with mentally dominating as few as 37,000 people, and earlier had struggles manipulating 20,000 more - so you're now gonna tell me a noticeably weaker version, was able to mind dominate, 20 + million, a feat of astronomical more significance, casually?
Got the quote for struggling with 20 000, and him growing in power?
2. Yes, Joruus was a disappointment because he was a mentally unstable and batshit crazy, that instability, making him borderline impossible to keep in check, or make of any use - nowhere in your text does it state he was inferior in power- in fact, the quote literally states he possessed all the powers of the original version.
Yes, that is exactly what I said - that they are equal. No idea what you're on.
@AZronger:
the ten Katana fleet Dreadnaughts of its task force were splitting up into outer and inner defense positions; and the Stormhawk was coming in as backstop from the night side.
[...]
The countdown reached zero, and on the main wall display the planet Ukio appeared. "We should put up a tactical display, Master C'baoth," he said. C'baoth waved a hand. "As you wish."[/i]Pellaeon reached over the double display ring and touched the proper key, and in the center of the room the holographic tactical display appeared. The Chimaera was driving toward high orbit above the sunside equator.
Other ships, mostly freighters and other commercial types, could be seen dropping through the brief gaps Ground Control was opening for them in Ukio's energy shield, a hazy blue shell surrounding the planet about fifty kilometers above the surface. Two of the blips flashed red: the guide freighters from theStormhawk , looking as innocent as all the rest of the ships scurrying madly for cover. The freighters, and the four invisible companions they towed.
"Invisible only to those without eyes to see them," C'baoth murmured.
"So now you can see the ships themselves, can you?" Pellaeon growled. "How Jedi skills grow."
He'd been hoping to irritate C'baoth a little—not much, just a little. But it was a futile effort. "I can see the men inside your precious cloaking shields," the Jedi Master said placidly. "I can see their thoughts and guide their wills. What does the metal itself matter?"
Pellaeon felt his lip twist. "I suppose there's a lot that doesn't matter to you," he said.
From the corner of his eye he saw C'baoth smile. "What doesn't matter to a Jedi Master does not matter to the universe." The freighters and cloaked cruisers were nearly to the shield now. "They'll be dropping the tow cables as soon as they're inside the shield," Pellaeon reminded C'baoth. "Are you ready?"
[i]The Jedi Master straightened up in his seat and closed his eyes to slits. "I await the Grand Admiral's command," he said sardonically. For another second Pellaeon looked at the other's composed expression, a shiver running up through
him.
He could remember vividly the first time C'baoth had tried this kind of direct long-distance control. Could remember the pain that had been on C'baoth's face; the pinched look of concentration and agony as he struggled to hold the mental contacts.
Barely two months ago, Thrawn had confidently said that C'baoth would never be a threat to the Empire because he lacked the ability to focus and concentrate his Jedi power on a long-term basis. Somehow, between that time and now, C'baoth had obviously succeeded in learning the necessary control.
Which left C'baoth as a threat to the Empire. A very dangerous threat indeed.
The intercom beeped. "Captain Pellaeon?"
Pellaeon reached over the display ring and touched the key, pushing away his fears about C'baoth as best he could. For the moment, at least, the Fleet needed C'baoth. Fortunately, perhaps, C'baoth also needed the Fleet. "We're ready, Admiral," he said.
"Stand by," Thrawn said. "Tow cables detaching now."
"They are free," C'baoth said. "They are under power... moving now to their appointed positions." "Confirm that they're beneath the planetary shield," Thrawn ordered.
For the first time a hint of the old strain crossed C'baoth's face. Hardly surprising; with the cloaking shield preventing the Chimaera from seeing the cruisers and at the same time blinding the cruisers' own sensors, the only way to know exactly where they were was for C'baoth to do a precise location check on the minds he was touching.
[...]
Pellaeon frowned, an odd and uncomfortable thought suddenly striking him. Had C'baoth been able to guide the cruisers so well because each of their thousand-man crews were composed of variants on just twenty or so different minds? Or—even more disturbing—could part of the Jedi Master's split-second control have been due to the fact that C'baoth was himself a clone?
Eek, the quote looks messy as hell, but I'm too lazy to bother fixing it, but, to paraphrase the quotes. [All quotes from the Last Command, btw]
- It is confirmed they are 10 Kantana Dreadnoughts, each a thousand man vessels
- As explained by Palleon, 2 months at the start o the Thrawn campaign, C'baoth would struggle immensely with such a task of [only] mentally controlling 10,000 people while in a near meditative trance, a far cry from a entire planet sporting millions, passively - as your interpretation of the quote would have us believe.
- Even with a notable finer grasp of his powers, the deed is still a daunting task for C'baoth to perform, as noted by the "old strain crossed C'baoth's face" line.
- Palleon then goes on to state maybe Joruus was able to perform the task so easily is because of circumstances involving the cloning process. Granted, this is only a hypothesis by a non-force sensitive character, but I vaguely remember a source - [either The Last Command sourcebook, or the Thrawn trilogy sourcebook, explicitly leaving that theory open as a possibility.
So in short, no way is C'baoth capable of planet level mental domination when he struggles with the number of people that could just populate a city just fine, lmao. Especially when you throw in the fact the inhabitants of Wayland was never shown to be under any kind mind of control when Luke visited the planet, as far as I remember.
Yes, that is exactly what I said - that they are equal. No idea what you're on.
My bad, went full retard right there for a moment, thought you said Jorus was > Joruus, lal.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
So in short, no way is C'baoth capable of planet level mental domination when he struggles with the number of people that could just populate a city just fine, lmao. Especially when you throw in the fact the inhabitants of Wayland was never shown to be under any kind mind of control when Luke visited the planet, as far as I remember.
Fair enough, then. But Dooku still at least has the Yoda scaling.
My bad, went full retard right there for a moment, thought you said Jorus was > Joruus, lal.
Well, at least I wasn't the only one who took an L. 🙂