Originally posted by FrothByte
Did you even read the article. Those were duels to either first blood or to death, and everything in between. Also, "fencing" in the medieval ages could be done with longswords, sword and shield, polearms and whatever other weapons they had.
Cool, now tell me how does that relate to Westeros where every trial by combat we've seen has been fought by men in armor.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Cool, now tell me how does that relate to Westeros where every trial by combat we've seen has been fought by men in armor.
Not much, but then again this point was never much in relation to Westerosi knights in particular. You made a claim that knights (seemingly in general) were specialized to fight in armor. I was merely proving you wrong.
But if you want to bring this back in context for Westerosi knights in particular then I don't even need to prove anything, since they already have multiple scenes where westerosi fighters were fighting without armor. Jamie, Brienne, Jon Snow, The Hound, etc.
Even the Viper had far less armor on than Achilles does.
Like I said, no one is getting gimped in this fight. All combatants know how to fight without armor on.
Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Your obsession with Froth has gone from amusing to pathetic now
I've had Sable on ignore for a few months now, but judging from the number of times he replies immediately after one of my posts I assume that he has continued to flame me even though I haven't replied to him for some time.
I'm not sure what ticked him off. I disagreed with him on a bunch of threads when he first joined and it seems to have gotten under his skin.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Not much, but then again this point was never much in relation to Westerosi knights in particular. You made a claim that knights (seemingly in general) were specialized to fight in armor. I was merely proving you wrong.But if you want to bring this back in context for Westerosi knights in particular then I don't even need to prove anything, since they already have multiple scenes where westerosi fighters were fighting without armor. Jamie, Brienne, Jon Snow, The Hound, etc.
Even the Viper had far less armor on than Achilles does.
Like I said, no one is getting gimped in this fight. All combatants know how to fight without armor on.
We could argue about the real world history. I'm not convinced by a 19th century document, but that's not relevant.
Yes, of course they can fight without armor. They're just not as good without it. Let Achilles have his standard gear and let the GoT characters have theirs.
The Viper isn't a knight, he's a flippy homo that would get wasted in a real battle.
Originally posted by Psychotron
We could argue about the real world history. I'm not convinced by a 19th century document, but that's not relevant.Yes, of course they can fight without armor. They're just not as good without it. Let Achilles have his standard gear and let the GoT characters have theirs.
The Viper isn't a knight, he's a flippy homo that would get wasted in a real battle.
A 19th century document (actually it's a 21st century document but whatever) that has medieval manuals as sources, listed in the footnotes if you cared to read them. It's way better evidence than any you presented.
If you want to claim that knights can't fight as good outside their armor then that's up to you to prove. Common sense dictates that only durability is increased when you have armor on. Fighting skill should be the same or even better without armor on.
The Viper is a noble and a warlord. And in case you haven't noticed, this thread is about the entire GOT universe, not just Westerosi knights in particular.
Originally posted by FrothByte
A 19th century document (actually it's a 21st century document but whatever) that has medieval manuals as sources, listed in the footnotes if you cared to read them. It's way better evidence than any you presented.If you want to claim that knights can't fight as good outside their armor then that's up to you to prove. Common sense dictates that only durability is increased when you have armor on. Fighting skill should be the same or even better without armor on.
The Viper is a noble and a warlord. And in case you haven't noticed, this thread is about the entire GOT universe, not just Westerosi knights in particular.
I presented a historical fact, which is > a manual.
Yeah, durability is kind of important. Plate armor can no sell a sword, while human flesh cannot.
He's a homosex, who got the fate he deserved for being a cocky little shit. The Westerosi knights are the only ones who can put up a fight. All of that world's best fighters (Robert, Jamie, Selmy, Arthur, the Mountain, the Hound, Brienne, etc.) are Westerosi knights or nobles.
Originally posted by Psychotron
I presented a historical fact, which is > a manual.Yeah, durability is kind of important. Plate armor can no sell a sword, while human flesh cannot.
He's a homosex, who got the fate he deserved for being a cocky little shit. The Westerosi knights are the only ones who can put up a fight. All of that world's best fighters (Robert, Jamie, Selmy, Arthur, the Mountain, the Hound, Brienne, etc.) are Westerosi knights or nobles.
You presented a written account of the last known knightly duel that was performed during a time when duels were no longer being done. I presented a written compilation of multiple historical documents stating how knightly duels were done at the height of their popularity.
Yes, durability is important, I never said otherwise. And being without armor will certainly lower your durability, but it will not lower your fighting skill which is what you seemed to imply. If you believe it does then you'll need to provide some proof of that assertion.
Originally posted by FrothByte
You presented a written account of the last known knightly duel that was performed during a time when duels were no longer being done. I presented a written compilation of multiple historical documents stating how knightly duels were done at the height of their popularity.Yes, durability is important, I never said otherwise. And being without armor will certainly lower your durability, but it will not lower your fighting skill which is what you seemed to imply. If you believe it does then you'll need to provide some proof of that assertion.
What I saw was fencing mosly. And it's irrelevant here. Duels are fought in armor in Westeros.
Do I really need to explain why a character, who is used to fighting in armor, would be disadvantaged if he was forced to fight naked? You realize these guys are used to fighting with the mindset that they're almost immune to swords or glancing blows?
I didn't tell you to keep Achilles naked, just to give everyone their standard eqiupment. This is like putting a naked Battfleck against Marv. Yeah, they're both on equal terms, but Batffleck doesn't noramlly fight this way and he won't fight at optimal capacity.
Originally posted by Psychotron
What I saw was fencing mosly. And it's irrelevant here. Duels are fought in armor in Westeros.Do I really need to explain why a character, who is used to fighting in armor, would be disadvantaged if he was forced to fight naked? You realize these guys are used to fighting with the mindset that they're almost immune to swords or glancing blows?
I didn't tell you to keep Achilles naked, just to give everyone their standard eqiupment. This is like putting a naked Battfleck against Marv. Yeah, they're both on equal terms, but Batffleck doesn't noramlly fight this way and he won't fight at optimal capacity.
Look dude, you're entitled to your opinions. But I seriously hope you don't think your opinion matters more than historical facts or GOT feats. Especially not when you don't even seem to know what "fencing" means or how it originated.
It's a fact that historically, knights were equally trained in armored and unarmored combat. Fact is that in GOT, we have multiple fighters who have fought in and out of armor without any apparent change in their skill. Fact is that you've already been proven wrong dozens of posts ago but you continue to drag this on simply because you have too much pride to admit you were wrong.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Look dude, you're entitled to your opinions. But I seriously hope you don't think your opinion matters more than historical facts or GOT feats. Especially not when you don't even seem to know what "fencing" means or how it originated.It's a fact that historically, knights were equally trained in armored and unarmored combat. Fact is that in GOT, we have multiple fighters who have fought in and out of armor without any apparent change in their skill. Fact is that you've already been proven wrong dozens of posts ago but you continue to drag this on simply because you have too much pride to admit you were wrong.
How am I wrong? I already said the gimped GoT fighters would lose against Achilles under these stips.
Nice deflection btw. Keep bringing in real world history in a debate about fantasy.