Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Maul 'skeptics' love to point out his embarrassing encounters with padawans and almost getting his face bitten off by a dog and that's all relevant. I need some convincing that Maul is still a somewhat decent combatant, where is ILS...?
Yeah a dog jumped on him one time. He must be shit tier.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Apologies for the part I've played in that. Let it get back to you and Ant. Maybe repost your last response to him..
That would clog the thread even more, I'll just respond to the last part of his counter I suppose, then maybe Ant's willing to clog through all the pages here to respond to each part, I won't blame him if he isn't
Originally posted by godemperortrump
Pathetic Kbro. Maul stomps Kenobi for the hundredth time
I think the main factor in who wins between these two will always be circumstance and story: I would favour Maul as far as the Force is concerned but, if we are to assume Kenobi's power increased significantly between SoD and RotS, which I suppose it could well have, then it could still be a very close fight. Though, as I argued some time ago, there's many indicators Maul's own power would have increased after the events of SoD, so who knows.
Originally posted by ILS
I think the main factor in who wins between these two will always be circumstance and story: I would favour Maul as far as the Force is concerned but, if we are to assume Kenobi's power increased significantly between SoD and RotS, which I suppose it could well have, then it could still be a very close fight. Though, as I argued some time ago, there's many indicators Maul's own power would have increased after the events of SoD, so who knows.
Anyway, whatever power edge Maul may or may not have against Kenobi wasn't particularly relevant in their fights setting aside when maul had backup.
Instead it was Kenobi's superiority with the blade that proved the most important factor under a mix of both favorable and unfavorable circumstances. Given Kenobi after SOD has had DD, the outer rim sieges, and a massive emotional triumph against Anakin to grow from, we have no reason to assume Kenobi still isn't the superior swordsman. That should be sufficient to give him a win here.
That said, the fight should be a very good one. As Rebels Maul has managed to find himself in the range of a rots Kenobi+ duelist in Rebels Vader and Rebels Kenobi despite growing less than Kenobi did post-ROTS, the gap between the two can't be a big one.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Anyway, whatever power edge Maul may or may not have against Kenobi wasn't particularly relevant in their fights setting aside when maul had backup.Instead it was Kenobi's superiority with the blade that proved the most important factor under a mix of both favorable and unfavorable circumstances. Given Kenobi after SOD has had DD, the outer rim sieges, and a massive emotional triumph against Anakin to grow from, we have no reason to assume Kenobi still isn't the superior swordsman. That should be sufficient to give him a win here.
That said, the fight should be a very good one. As Rebels Maul has managed to find himself in the range of a rots Kenobi+ duelist in Rebels Vader and Rebels Kenobi despite growing less than Kenobi did post-ROTS, the gap between the two can't be a big one.
Umm what? Maul's power 'edge' is relevant... He's choked/dominated Obi-Wan with the force for long periods of time with little effort in Canon and Legends.
Got any quotes to backup Kenobi's 'superiority with the blade?' Or just assumptions?
It's pretty clear that Kenobi has been kept alive thanks to the plot. Maul could have killed him a myriad of times throughout TCW, but that was not his ultimate goal. He has said time and time again that he just wants Obi to 'suffer' and 'feel the pain he felt.' It's not until Rebels when Filoni decides he can't be bothered dragging this pathetic, butchered character out any longer and ends him.
Originally posted by godemperortrump
Umm what? Maul's power 'edge' is relevant... He's choked/dominated Obi-Wan with the force for long periods of time with little effort in Canon and Legends.
If he's not able to beat Kenobi with the force as of TCW, he's not doing it to ROTS Kenobi.
Originally posted by godemperortrump
Got any quotes to backup Kenobi's 'superiority with the blade?' Or just assumptions?
Kenobi's better because he's repeatedly shown he's better.
He's either done it when Kenobi was injured, when Kenobi was focused on Maul's brother, when Maul is explicitly stated to have lost control of his rage, and is drawing on animalistic rage, or when they aren't even fighting. In terms of actual straight up duels, Maul has failed to make use of the force be it season 4 or their 1 v 1 on florrum.If he's not able to beat Kenobi with the force as of TCW, he's not doing it to ROTS Kenobi.
Are you serious?
Also notice in image 4 how Maul has stopped the 'choke gesture' and has his focus on Plo Koon, yet Kenobi is still on the ground with his hands around his neck desperate for air.
This choke is enough to leave the durable Obi-Wan injured and incapable of continuing.
Pretty impressive force feat for Maul.
Well we have their actual fights where Kenobi's the one landing disorientating kicks, flooring or incapping him while injured or dealing with all his attacks while wrecking Maul's brother with unfavorable and favorable circumstances. Maul only ever managed to "beat" Kenobi when he exploited Kenobi circumstantially being a wreck mentally and physically with dun moch, something he's failed to replicate vs Kenobi without aid. And even then, the fight was more or less a stalemate being slightly in Maul's favor per Feloni, purely due to the situation.
You mean the time where Kenobi is fighting with duel blades and a completely different style? Something Maul would not expect him to do? Add in a rage amp due to the death of his great friend Adi Gallia and you have reasons... This was clearly circumstantial.
You say this as if Kenobi's victories against Maul weren't circumstantial (TPM, Rebels and the one time in TCW which has already been addressed)
- TPM is obvious, young pre-prime Obi-Wan was dominated by Maul even with a rage amp. Also extreme PIS. I don't think that needs further explanation
- Rebels Maul was physically deteriorating (chunks falling off his metal legs) and he'd been wandering around the deserts of Tatooine for two weeks without Food or water. Not to mention Maul's arrogance and Kenobi's will to protect Luke at all costs.
"When you get to this episode Obi-Wan is much more focused and ready. Not only that but when Adi Gallia dies he gains even more focus and has to kind of right that wrong."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1089&v=zvGXSe8fvrs
Kenobi's better because he's repeatedly shown he's better.
Which you didn't prove...
Originally posted by godemperortrump
Are you serious?
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
He's either done it when Kenobi was injured, when Kenobi was focused on Maul's brother, when Maul is explicitly stated to have lost control of his rage, and is drawing on animalistic rage, or when they aren't even fighting.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
You mean the time where Kenobi is fighting with duel blades and a completely different style? Something Maul would not expect him to do?
And nah, Kenobi being forced to use a secondary style as he would get outlasted if he tried to use his soresu against not only Maul, but Oppress as well isn't really something that would help him vs Maul in a 1 v 1.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Add in a rage amp due to the death of his great friend Adi Gallia and you have reasons
He lunged and sliced the Zabrak's yellow-and-black arm off at the shoulder. Savage howled in agony, retreating toward Maul as his brother shoved Obi-Wan backward with a blast of Force power. Maul stared at Obi-Wan, eyes blazing, the hatred boiling inside him. But then he regained control of his emotions, and shut off the surge of animal rage. He had bigger plans now than merely revenge, and settling the score with Obi-Wan could wait.
Credit: Shadow Conspiracy
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
... This was clearly circumstantial.
I'll help you out though, there is some actual context against Maul that you can argue compensates for the circumstances Kenobi had to deal with as he outperformed Maul despite being pre-prime:
Maul had an agility boost once he got new legs.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
You say this as if Kenobi's victories against Maul weren't circumstantial (TPM, Rebels and the one time in TCW which has already been addressed)- TPM is obvious, young pre-prime Obi-Wan was dominated by Maul even with a rage amp. Also extreme PIS. I don't think that needs further explanation
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
- Rebels Maul was physically deteriorating (chunks falling off his metal legs) and he'd been wandering around the deserts of Tatooine for two weeks without Food or water. Not to mention Maul's arrogance and Kenobi's will to protect Luke at all costs.
" I felt that with Maul, any moment that he parries Obi-Wan is saying that he’s as good as Obi-Wan and I don’t think that’s true. I don’t think Maul ever accepted a path of selflessness and enlightenment and in the end, never getting over his need for revenge, and his anger and the way his life worked out is what undid him."
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
"When you get to this episode Obi-Wan is much more focused and ready. Not only that but when Adi Gallia dies he gains even more focus and has to kind of right that wrong."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1089&v=zvGXSe8fvrs
"Empty meditation: which purges negative emotions and lets you step away from attachment. This can also be achieved in an awake state that reduces distraction and increases focus on a task-you may find it to improve your ability to repair a device, your skill in sifting through the archives, or your combat skills".
(Annotation) Highly Recommended! -Kenobi
The Jedi Path: The Third Pillar: Self-discipline
An instant later the Force had him hurtling through a storm of blasterfire as every combat droid in the control center opened up on him at once. Letting go of intention, letting go of desire, letting go of life, Obi-Wan fixed his entire attention on a thread of the Force that pulled him toward Grievous: not where Grievous was, but where Grievous would be when Obi-Wan got there...
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Which you didn't prove... [/B]