Darth Malak vs General Grievous

A Jedi wouldn't cut down an unarmed opponent. He never opted for the Jedi option in either confrontation.

You missed the point, but in a way conceded it. Mace went in wanting to arrest, not kill Palpatine.

You're saying Mace should go in here wanting to kill Grievous, yet he doesn't even have that mindset against Sidious until the end.

We can take this further and say the same with Grievous. By the time OCW rolled out, he did have that mindset vs Grievous.

Telepathy works on minds weak or strong once a Force user possesses past a certain level of power. Given C'baoth was able to dominate the minds of thousands of non Force user's I'm going to assume it is well within Mace's ( or most other Jedi for that matter ) capabilities to dominate the mind of a single non Force sensitive. Even one as strong as Grievous's. Regardless, that wasn't the point.

Mace couldn't mind-trick Cad Bane without the aid of two other Jedi. I doubt Grievous is vulnerable.

I'm saying that if any ability could be used instantly then the hundreds of Jedi that fought Grievous and died to him would've been able to use the Force to hoist him into the air or simply rip his lightsaber away from him while fighting him off with a lightsaber.

Grievous would be holding onto those lightsabers with immense grip. Are you saying he's weak enough to be bitched that way?

With being thrown in the air, who's to say beings haven't tried? Grievous would still have his feet and sabers to defend himself, and 99.9% of Jedi wouldn't be powerful enough to fight him and hold onto him at the same time anyhow.

Keep giving me excuses I'll keep debunking them.

Also, you wouldn't be able to see a Force user gathering their power before they used an ability so you're Force choke example is irrelevant.

What? How about Dooku? We know as per the novel he instantly unleashed the choke against Kenobi - so fast Kenobi couldn't even throw up a barrier.

You missed the point, but in a way conceded it. Mace went in wanting to arrest, not kill Palpatine.

He wanted to end his rule. I'm sure it didn't matter to him in what manner that occurred other then that it would've looked better for the Jedi to have arrested a Sith Lord who confessed to his crimes and was executed for them rather then a group of Jedi murdering the Chancellor and claiming he was a Sith Lord afterwards with very little evidence to support such a claim. Mace isn't stupid, he was likely aware that the chances of the former were close to nill, but he had to try.

You're saying Mace should go in here wanting to kill Grievous, yet he doesn't even have that mindset against Sidious until the end.

Read above.

We can take this further and say the same with Grievous. By the time OCW rolled out, he did have that mindset vs Grievous.

Even if what you claimed regarding how Mace viewed Sidious was true he obviously didn't view Grievous in the same way given he never opted to offer Grievous a chance to surrender in either instance.

Mace couldn't mind-trick Cad Bane without the aid of two other Jedi. I doubt Grievous is vulnerable.

Ah, you're bringing Canon into this. Fair enough, I thought you might which is why I clarified that utilizing telepathy was just an example and not the point of what I was saying and then went on to provide examples of actions Jedi could take in both Canon and Legend.

Grievous would be holding onto those lightsabers with immense grip. Are you saying he's weak enough to be bitched that way?

All lightsaber combatants have to adjust their grip on their blades as they engage in a duel. If a Force user doesn't need time to utilize an ability then they should be able to tear it out of his grip, or cause him to fumble it, or better yes, simply explode the hilt leaving Grievous weaponless.

With being thrown in the air, who's to say beings haven't tried? Grievous would still have his feet and sabers to defend himself, and 99.9% of Jedi wouldn't be powerful enough to fight him and hold onto him at the same time anyhow.

I said holding him in the air. Grievous wouldn't be able do anything to them at that point.

And why not? I thought you were just talking about how one doesn't need to focus their energies to carry out an action with the Force. Why would holding him in the air take more of their energy then augmenting themselves so that they could keep up with him in a lightsaber bout? Because that's beneficial to your argument? Lmao.

Keep giving me excuses I'll keep debunking them.

Ditto mate. 👆

What? How about Dooku? We know as per the novel he instantly unleashed the choke against Kenobi - so fast Kenobi couldn't even throw up a barrier.

Faster then Obi Wan could throw up a sufficient barrier to protect against an attack by a Force user of Dooku's caliber doesn't mean instant.

To clarify before I respond, so you're saying Grievous could reach Mace in that situation faster than Obi-Wan can throw up a barrier, which is presumably much faster than a second?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
which is presumably much faster than a second?

Your presumption, not mine.

You also tend to believe Mace >= Dooku which would skew our views on how fast they could get a Force attack out in comparison to one another since I believe Dooku > Mace as a Force user.

Alright, then I'll ask this question.

How long, in the mind of Syndicate, would it take Grievous to reach Mace?

He's massively hypersonic so probably not long at all. 🙂

You do realize that's hyperbole? That's 3,400 meters per second.

For someone who dismisses quotes that are inconsistent, the fact you don't dismiss this one is... telling.

We see how fast Grievous is in OCW hallway scene, BTW. He's not that fast.

I don't think the speed of Force user's or beings that can compete with the speed of Force user's are exaggerated. I'm very much in favor of relativistic Sheev.

Grievous was dodging Force attacks which would've slowed him considerably. Also, a visual medium not showing a character moving at speeds they're shown or stated to be capable of doesn't mean the character isn't capable of that. It's the same with Vader, we don't assume he can only move as fast as a large man in a clunky suit because of the limitations of the OT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64-3talVkUA&t=2m06s

And this?

Read above.

If Grievous runs hypersonic, he would have got to the other end of the room, taken Palpatine to the other room he just came from, jump out of the building, and be way on his way to his ship before the Jedi would have even pulled out their lightsabers.

The performance of the Jedi against Grievous and the magnaguards shows us their capabilities, not the other way around. Reverse scaling doesn't work.

But we see them all moving at the speed of human martial artists?

So is all mediums besides the select ones that give exaggerated speed descriptions them not using their full speed?

You tell me. Is Vader now slow as molasses?

The speed he shows in the OT is around his speed, yeah, give or take. That's consistent with Rebels too.

Granted I imagine he can move a lot faster running, but we see his saber speed there.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The speed he shows in the OT is around his speed, yeah, give or take.

We fundamentally disagree on this.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The speed he shows in the OT is around his speed, yeah, give or take. That's consistent with Rebels too.

Granted I imagine he can move a lot faster running, but we see his saber speed there.

Unlikely.

"Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them."