I think it was Nova who brought it to my attention. I wouldn't really argue any one Jedi/Sith is naturally above hundreds of Jedi anyway, let alone an apprentice. I always viewed it as Vivicar starts receiving the amp recently but was far from done. I liked the exaggerated version of that as a counter to some of Az's crap though. Thanks NG. 👇
Other than that, it is still insanely impressive to defeat the guy who can pull off things of this sort, while extremely weakened.
@Skillz,
Yeah, from what I remember it's similar to the ritual Sidious and Dooku performed on Yoda, affecting Jedi that had some sort of prior relationship with him from a distance. That said, I don't think he just up and mind****ed the masters all at once or anything like that, but rather plagued them one-by-one, but I could be misremembering.
Either way, it's still a pretty damn far cry from being amped by the force energies of hundreds of Jedi Masters, as he himself freely admits.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
@Skillz,Yeah, from what I remember it's similar to the ritual Sidious and Dooku performed on Yoda, affecting Jedi that had some sort of prior relationship with him from a distance. That said, I don't think he just up and mind****ed the masters all at once or anything like that, but rather plagued them one-by-one, but I could be misremembering.
Either way, it's still a pretty damn far cry from being amped by the force energies of hundreds of Jedi Masters, as he himself freely admits.
I mean sure, it's a far cry from being amped by hundreds of Jedi Masters, but I'd argue making hundreds of Jedi Masters insane/slaves to your will is the next best thing. The plague being so powerful that it takes an ancient jedi ritual that weakens the user to cut off the Morrhage's hold on a single master.
I feel like trying to scale Morrhage's personal power by the number of his plague's victims is like trying to scale Muur's power off of the enormous number of folks that turned into rackghouls over the milennia as a result of his sorcery.
Unless I'm missing something, the effects on the individuals he plagues are what matters, since theres no indication that he spends power maintaining the sickness of his plurality of victims.
Originally posted by Sinious
Act I Hero is stronger than Barsen'thor, who in return defeated Lord Vivicar. Vivicar was amped by HUNDREDS of Jedi, and Thor in return was extremely weakened while facing Vivicar. Seems like HoT has something going for him. 👆
LMFAO what a retard
Doesn't matter, if he scales to that or not. Still not comparable to being around the Same level as Vitiate, even without the 900 years of growth after RoN, which was 8000 sith lords and the very force/life of a planet. Or Nihilus, consuming a Jedi colony/Planet.
Your down play of Meetra is real.
She carved up an academy of Sith assassins then Traya on a dark side Nexus,
regarded by scourge 300 years later as the republics greatest heros.
"Revan was both Jedi Master and Sith Lord. His student, the Exile, defeated the Sith triumvirate. They were your greatest heroes."
Source: The Old Republic
This coming from the guy, who
As the feared "Emperor's Wrath," Scourge enforced his Master's will for more than three centuries. When a Jedi grew too powerful or a Sith too ambitious, Scourge eliminated the threat.
Source: The Old Republic Encyclopedia
It's a clear testament to Meetra's power, as from all the Jedi he had killed Meetra was said the greatest.
Also
"Revan, the Exile and I were all Jedi-trained. We all resisted the Emperor. What Sith have done so?"
"That was... a surprise. In three centuries, I expected to see one test his strength against the Dark Lord. But those strong enough to challenge him are killed young, or co-opted into the Dark Council."
Source: The Old Republic
No one within 300 years could resist, him till start of act 3 HoT, well not even then.
This includes Marr/etc.
Meetra is comparable to novel Scourge, and Act II HoT is comparable to prime Scourge. Scourge had gone through things that makes it clear that he is far better in the game than he is in the novel. Act III HoT arguably has a significant advantage over prime Scourge, yet you're saying that act III Hero is maybe comparable to Meetra?
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Lol, they aren't comparable, the one against arcann wasn't a charged version.
Not to mention it was from a good proportionally weakend Valkorian.The one against Revan was a huge build up of Novel Vitiates full power.
Valkorion's FLS packed so much intensity that even with the bulk of it directed towards Arcann and the latter's effort to block it, it was releasing bolts in the surroundings and a single hit was sufficient to down a military-grade Starship in the vicinity. In-fact, collateral damage was so great that flights seized in the region altogether.
Yes, Valkorion at the time of Asylum was relatively weaker in comparison to his form in Chapter 1 but was he weaker than Vitiate as of Revan? I don't get this impression. Before the Asylum incident, he wiped out an entire contingent of Zakuul Knights and Droids with a single wave of energy; a contingent that would have wiped out the Outlander and his allies otherwise. Heck, Valkorion was tinkering with the Force-sensitivity of the Outlander in order to transform him into a suitable Voice.
It isn't hard to assume that Arcann has better defenses than Revan.
Originally posted by AncientPower
People still believe the Malak > Kun accolade? Pre-prime Kun > Vitiate, half a century prior to Revan makes it nonsensical.
Vitiate would be miles ahead of Exar Kun at any point.
Originally posted by Sinious
Meetra is comparable to novel Scourge,
LMFAO.
She was absolutely outclassing him.
She was, whilst caught in mid-dive, capable of standing her ground through skill against the undivided attention of Nyriss, until she lost out in Force augmentation. Whereas Scourge was two-shotted by Nyriss' split attention.
Meetra was facing off against, and killing, at least three Imperial Guards, in the same amount of time Scourge was facing nobody but Captain Yarri until one of them left Meetra's side. Whilst in the presence of the Emperor, which is stated to passively block a Jedi's connection to the light side of the Force. Whilst in the Dark Citadel, a focal point of Dromund Kaas.
All whilst on a nexus-where Scourge himself has confirmed he is significantly amped-which turned Kyle Katarn to the dark side, completely blinded Jaina and Mara Jade's connections to the Force, and was giving the most powerful Jedi of all-time serious problems.
This is thousands of years after Dromund Kaas had been abandoned, by the way.
Not to mention that this was after Meetra's spirit and psyche had almost been broken by Nathema's void. Which is stated to have gradually gotten better over the centures, since Meetra had travelled there. A place where Jedi and Sith alike are literally killed by said Void unless they have a metric shit ton of willpower.
In which way are they comparable?
I don't think it is wise
So it probably is.
to take Exar Kun's hype
It's a statement, not hype.
at face value
Coming from you, this is golden.
when Vitiate was a concealed threat at the time
Still very much within Sith space.
and no source took him into consideration.
Considering the Sith Emperor has existed since 2008, when the TOTJ Omnibus Volume 2 was published, I don't see the problem.
Not to mention that the age of the source, is not itself a derogatory factor, only a contradiction would make this an issue. No such contradiction exists.
Otherwise, Exar Kun > Abeloth and the Son also.
Abeloth is sealed in a world which uses the Force to conceal her, quite literally, from the outer galaxy. Mortis doesn't even technically exist within the same space-time as the rest of the galaxy, so no.
Vitiate would be miles ahead of Exar Kun at any point.
Funny, because that sounds highly debatable at best.
Originally posted by AncientPower
So it probably is.It's a statement, not hype.
Coming from you, this is golden.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Still very much within Sith space.
Sith Emperor >> Exar Kun
Originally posted by AncientPower
Considering the Sith Emperor has existed since 2008, when the TOTJ Omnibus Volume 2 was published, I don't see the problem.
Sith Emperor's powers and hype were properly established in 2012.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Not to mention that the age of the source, is not itself a derogatory factor, only a contradiction would make this an issue. No such contradiction exists
Eat this: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t641496.html
Originally posted by AncientPower
Abeloth is sealed in a world which uses the Force to conceal her, quite literally, from the outer galaxy. Mortis doesn't even technically exist within the same space-time as the rest of the galaxy, so no.Funny, because that sounds highly debatable at best.
"The darkest power in the galaxy walks away with something that will make him even stronger."
I am sorry but Exar Kun's hype cannot be taken at face value anymore. 👆
You are assuming that Vitiate at the time of Revan and Valkorion at the time of Asylum are on even playing field.Valkorion's FLS packed so much intensity that even with the bulk of it directed towards Arcann and the latter's effort to block it, it was releasing bolts in the surroundings and a single hit was sufficient to down a military-grade Starship in the vicinity. In-fact, collateral damage was so great that flights seized in the region altogether.
Yes, Valkorion at the time of Asylum was relatively weaker in comparison to his form in Chapter 1 but was he weaker than Vitiate as of Revan? I don't get this impression. Before the Asylum incident, he wiped out an entire contingent of Zakuul Knights and Droids with a single wave of energy; a contingent that would have wiped out the Outlander and his allies otherwise. Heck, Valkorion was tinkering with the Force-sensitivity of the Outlander in order to transform him into a suitable Voice.
It isn't hard to assume that Arcann has better defenses than Revan.
No i'm not.
Refer to my argument about Potency of attacks. Bigger ain't necessarily better within the SW universe e.g. turbo blasters don't cause massive explosions etc, in which a gigaton explosion should.
"Eleven members of the Dark Council died in a sudden flash on the steps of the Citadel. The last member Darth Lokess, disappeared forever, though for some centuries some claimed her screams could be heard from the bowels of the Citadel."
Nah, this is far more impressive than wiping out zakuul knights. Tinkering with force sensitive doesn't prove superiority only knowledge, anyawy he was already altering peoples life spans(Scourge/Revan) which tbh is more impressive.
And that's ignoring the Fact, that Revan went up against Novel Vitiates full powered lightning(charged), while Arcann didn't.
The Sith Emperor has been referred to as a character since 2008, I vividly remember reading the early statements about him on the swtor website.
Considering that sourcebooks and actual books are entirely different things, and furthermore that said sourcebooks are secondary sources. I don't care.
In other words, you're dismissing quotes you don't like because you lack the argument necessary to counter it? What's new. . .
Originally posted by Haschwalth
No i'm not.Refer to my argument about Potency of attacks. Bigger ain't necessarily better within the SW universe e.g. turbo blasters don't cause massive explosions etc, in which a gigaton explosion should.
Again, on what grounds are you assuming that Valkorion's FLS was relatively lacking in potency? Because Arcann withstood it?
Arcann is neither a Jedi and nor a Sith; his defensive technique seems to be different from that of Revan.
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Nah, this is far more impressive than wiping out zakuul knights.
One-shotting a large contingent comprising of numerous Knights of Zakuul and droids in a split-second moment is an equally impressive showing by any measure. Nothing suggests that this attack was relatively less potent than the attack on that Dark Council; could be more potent in-fact.
Those Knights of Zakuul were going toe-to-toe with the Outlander and his allies and were on the verge of overwhelming them. In-fact, a single Knight was about to strike Lana Beniko down.
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Tinkering with force sensitive doesn't prove superiority only knowledge, anyawy he was already altering peoples life spans(Scourge/Revan) which tbh is more impressive.
Valkorion had clearly grown in power and in his understanding of the ways of the Force since his time as the Sith Emperor.
Originally posted by Haschwalth
And that's ignoring the Fact, that Revan went up against Novel Vitiates full powered lightning(charged), while Arcann didn't.
Originally posted by AncientPower
The Sith Emperor has been referred to as a character since 2008, I vividly remember reading the early statements about him on the swtor website.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Considering that sourcebooks and actual books are entirely different things, and furthermore that said sourcebooks are secondary sources. I don't care.In other words, you're dismissing quotes you don't like because you lack the argument necessary to counter it? What's new. . .
Exar Kun was strongest in his Empire and in known parts of the galaxy at most. Sith Emperor, Abeloth and the Son represent concealed threats at the time [in-universe view] and not established [out-of-universe view]. Very straightforward.
More importantly, relevant author agrees with me.
I have seen it.
Again, on what grounds are you assuming that Valkorion's FLS was relatively lacking in potency? Because Arcann withstood it?Arcann is neither a Jedi and nor a Sith; his defensive technique seems to be different from that of Revan.
Maybe because, Arcann couldn't fully dominate an Outlander, who technically hasn't grown much at the the time. Since the events of SOR, you may argue, Revan is stronger than in the Novel, but The Gap was too massive, for the Outlander(Hot) to of been comparable. As he still ragdolled HoT after being extremely weakend.(aka ToS), and still needed light Revans help.
Being light/Dark doesn't help lmao. It's all about the Raw power, in which Arcann managed to deflect, Revan actually had a harder time as he absorbed it. Anyway Revan is primary sub for Dual philosophies.
Vitiate's assault on that Dark Council is of entirely unknown nature.One-shotting a large contingent comprising of numerous Knights of Zakuul and droids in a split-second moment is equally impressive showing by any measure. Nothing suggests that this attack was relatively less potent than the attack on that Dark Council.
Those Knights were going toe-to-toe with the Outlander and his allies and were on the verge of overwhelming them.
died in a sudden flash on the steps of the Citadel.
Sudden, meaning done quickly
Flash, "a sudden brief burst of bright light."
Steps(stairs), they didn't move far
Yeah Vitiate killed them all with lightning in an instance, almost instantaneously.
You mean a outlander/etc who has been fighting for ages, and no it was lana who was in trouble, they blocked outlanders route to save her. The dark council would demolish, the outlander/etc.
Valkorion was tinkering with the Force-sensitivity of the Outlander on his own, without employing arcane machines for it. In the case of Revan and Lord Scourge, he utilized arcane machines.Clearly, Valkorion had grown in power and in his understanding of the ways of the Force since his time as the Sith Emperor.
Understanding of force does not equate to Raw power. True both are linear. But not the cause.
And that attack could still be weaker than that of Valkorion's.
Vitiate, had around marka Ragnos level potential(worthy heir), before RoN, which consumed 8000 weakened sith lords/ Stripped the planet of life/force literally atomising it, then had 900 years of growth. VItiate then grew, another 300 years, with draining Revan, though lost the majority of what he gained, with his childrens/death etc. And never fully Replaced it, till during his Ziost drain. quite frankly Prime valkorian should be 1.5-2 times stronger than his Novel form.
And since he is a spirit. he would be massively weakend, so It wouldn't be suprising if he were, Novel Level, considering, the majority of his growth/potential was achieved pre Novel.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It changes nothing; Sith Emperor was a completely unknown character back then.What nonsense. I am looking at this matter from an objective standpoint.
Exar Kun was strongest in his Empire and in known parts of the galaxy at most. Sith Emperor, Abeloth and the Son represent concealed threats at the time [in-universe view] and not established [out-of-universe view]. Very straightforward.
More importantly, relevant author agrees with me.
Which doesn't matter. He existed at the time, that's all that does. Not that it even matters, Vitiate as of the novel has no accolades placing him above Kun. Kun however, does.
Except, as I've explained, Vitiate is very much within the galaxy as of this point.
Your author isn't relevant at all, this isn't an RPG sourcebook. This is a series written by Tom Veitch, who places Kun well within the tier of one of his other characters. DE Palpatine. If we're using author intent, then Veitch is far more relevant than what you're trying to shove down our throats.