Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderSo you're an incredibly stupid retard is what you're saying? mmm
No. I don't see your points. We out Number you guys.If Sauron which Out numbered the Humans Lost. Now what would have happened if the Humans would Out number him?
We got the Dead too so....I see that UNLIKELY.
Fair enough. 👆
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
GOT easily.
How? The magic the LotR armies wield alone would destroy everything that Westeros has to offer, then we have beings like the Balrog, Smaug and Sauron. Tom Bombadil alone would sing off any army from westeros. Even if you take out the Maiar and Valar you are left with Galadriel, Elrond, Aragorn, Glorfindel. The last two capable to destroy the 10 most skilled fighters from westeros alone. This is a horrible mismatch. ASoIaF is low magic, low fantasy, it's focus lies somewhere else. The dragons are small stupid beasts compared to the likes of Smaug or Ancalagon and the undead slow and vulnerable compared to the ghost army that Aragorn commanded...
Really, there is not much to discuss.
Re: Re: A Song of Ice and Fire armies vs the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings armies
Originally posted by NemeBro
So are you knowingly making a spite thread, or do you just genuinely have no idea what kind of forces each setting can bring to bear, book-wise?Because there are individual beings in the armies from the LotR book universe that could bring the entirety of aSoIaF's setting to its knees by themselves.
It was a question I was asked in another thread. I decided to let the community answer. No spite, or lack of knowledge on my part.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
How? The magic the LotR armies wield alone would destroy everything that Westeros has to offer, then we have beings like the Balrog, Smaug and Sauron. Tom Bombadil alone would sing off any army from westeros. Even if you take out the Maiar and Valar you are left with Galadriel, Elrond, Aragorn, Glorfindel. The last two capable to destroy the 10 most skilled fighters from westeros alone. This is a horrible mismatch. ASoIaF is low magic, low fantasy, it's focus lies somewhere else. The dragons are small stupid beasts compared to the likes of Smaug or Ancalagon and the undead slow and vulnerable compared to the ghost army that Aragorn commanded...Really, there is not much to discuss.
But there is where you are wrong!
We possible outnumber ALL LoTR troops by 3! We got 3 Dragons. We got better weapons (100s of Scorpions which anyone could bring down smaug.Hobbit and LoTR has only 1 Dark Arrow! How will you bring down 3 dragons?) We got Wildfire too!!! Hundreds of Thousands of those! No matter how though your troops down they will BURN DOWN.
We got THOUSANDS of Boats. LoTR has been seen with none! We got better Leaders! LOTR is just a battle in where Sauron manages to defeat most of the troops because he OUTNUMBERS. In this CASE we outnumber. We got Tywin Lannister! No commander from LoTR would even come close to him in the battlefield!!
MAGIC? ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?
We are talking about the ENTIRE ASOIF HERE! HAHAHAHA!
OKAY LET ME INTRODUCE YOU OUR MAGIC.
We got the White Walkers! They will raise the dead! Both your troops and mine.
We got the Greenseers and Bran! I have eyes everywhere!!!!
We got the Children of the Forest! Their magic is strong enough to create shields and craft powerful enchantments.
We got the Red Witches! They can cast any dark magic. They can see the future through the flames. This would be a HUGE advantage on the battlefield! More intel for the MIGHT TYWIN LANNISTER. They would know LoTR exact moves and strategies.
We got the Faceless Man! They are powerful assassins. Could kill anyone without they even knowing they were there!
We got the Warlocks. They are powerful magical beings from Essos.
We got the Dothraki Warlocks...Thousands of Thousands of them...Better Horsemen than any of LoTR.
I would say you guys got every odd against you.
Not enough Elf wank in this thread.
The armies of Middle Earth aren't just bigger, they're better. Elves are Better Than You, and essentially super human. Doing shit like walking on top of snow and leaving no tracks by just being that good at sneaking. Named Elves were some of Tolkien's true "mortal" badasses. Depending how far back you go they can be entirely outlandish in their accomplishments.
Twenty good Elves > Twenty good men.
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Gentle reminder for your illiterate self Lord of the Rings outnumbers aSoIaF.
I am aware of both Armies numbers. And I KNOW GOT Outnumbers here.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Not enough Elf wank in this thread.The armies of Middle Earth aren't just bigger, they're better. Elves are Better Than You, and essentially super human. Doing shit like walking on top of snow and leaving no tracks by just being that good at sneaking. Named Elves were some of Tolkien's true "mortal" badasses. Depending how far back you go they can be entirely outlandish in their accomplishments.
Twenty good Elves > Twenty good men.
Yeah? I doubt that. First of all, there are humans in LoTR. And they are very powerful!
Now don't come and tell me your humans are superhumans, cause that would be stupid. If human's armies can face Orcs and all of Murdul's Forces then why woun't GOT?
Now regarding strategy and dicipline. GOT got better soldiers and more soldiers.
You guys are on the losing edge.
Until you can source any of your claims I'm going to have to disregard them as just that.
The North is the largest kingdom in Westeros if the maps I've seen are accurate, and the only number given so far is that they could summon perhaps 45 000 men. That's simply not enough. You could multiply that by the seven kingdoms and whatnot, but 1. That'd be unfounded since several of those kingdoms are smaller. 2. You'd still be vastly outnumbered due to the combined forces of Mordor, Isengard, and the Kingdoms of Men.
The television show says something about the army of the dead being a hundred thousand or something, but it takes those guys seven seasons to walk the same distance Littlefinger rides in a day. estahuh
Also wights are pansies.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Until you can source any of your claims I'm going to have to disregard them as just that.The North is the largest kingdom in Westeros if the maps I've seen are accurate, and the only number given so far is that they could summon perhaps 45 000 men. That's simply not enough. You could multiply that by the seven kingdoms and whatnot, but 1. That'd be unfounded since several of those kingdoms are smaller. 2. You'd still be vastly outnumbered due to the combined forces of Mordor, Isengard, and the Kingdoms of Men.
The television show says something about the army of the dead being a hundred thousand or something, but it takes those guys seven seasons to walk the same distance Littlefinger rides in a day. estahuh
Also wights are pansies.
Okay okay okay.
Look. The North is one of the largest kingdoms. But his armada is one of the smallest, and least powerful.
ASOIF Kingdoms are larger than LoTR.
Do you want to talk about numbers? We could do that.
Name me LoTR troops and forces. Ill name you mines.
So I can't help but notice that the little needle-dicked retard still hasn't addressed a single quote from the very books he is arguing against in my post, which isn't surprising. My post is unassailable.
I didn't plan on doing any debating today because the approaching hurricane has made my internet very unreliable, but it won't take much time to discredit a post with no effort put into it.
I take it you haven't actually read my post. Until you do and address the feats I laid out within, you have no leg to stand on in this argument. You'll still lose, but at least people might need to actually address the baseless claims you are throwing out.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Until you can source any of your claims I'm going to have to disregard them as just that.The North is the largest kingdom in Westeros if the maps I've seen are accurate, and the only number given so far is that they could summon perhaps 45 000 men. That's simply not enough. You could multiply that by the seven kingdoms and whatnot, but 1. That'd be unfounded since several of those kingdoms are smaller. 2. You'd still be vastly outnumbered due to the combined forces of Mordor, Isengard, and the Kingdoms of Men.
The television show says something about the army of the dead being a hundred thousand or something, but it takes those guys seven seasons to walk the same distance Littlefinger rides in a day. estahuh
Also wights are pansies.
You would do well to remember that Sauron's Total forces is of 200K (Peter Jackson said that). And it is also known that the good guys' army was lower than these.
That would put LoTR armya arround 400K approx.
But since the Hobbit films were included that could raise up to 500K maximum.
Am i right?
Originally posted by NemeBro
So I can't help but notice that the little needle-dicked retard still hasn't addressed a single quote from the very books he is arguing against in my post, which isn't surprising. My post is unassailable.I didn't plan on doing any debating today because the approaching hurricane has made my internet very unreliable, but it won't take much time to discredit a post with no effort put into it.
I take it you haven't actually read my post. Until you do and address the feats I laid out within, you have no leg to stand on in this argument. You'll still lose, but at least people might need to actually address the baseless claims you are throwing out.
Read down calculation of LoTR armies and approve it.
Also am gonna read it now only to DISCLAIM most of your claims. I didn't intended to because it is TOO LONG and since i know how this will play out i will most likely waste my time.
Leave the insults for yourself please. Else i will contact a moderator.
Originally posted by NemeBro
No it wouldn't. Aragorn would fodderize the best knights Westeros has to offer, be it Jaime Lannister, Loras, Gregor Clegane, or whoever. And Aragorn is not particularly impressive compared to some beings who have fought in the history of Arda."‘There upon Celebdil was a lonely window in the snow, and before it lay a narrow space, a dizzy eyrie above the mists of the world. The sun shone fiercely there, but all below was wrapped in cloud. Out he sprang, and even as I came behind, he burst into new flame. There was none to see, or perhaps in after ages songs would still be sung of the Battle of the Peak.’ Suddenly Gandalf laughed. ‘But what would they say in song? Those that looked up from afar thought that the mountain was crowned with storm. Thunder they heard, and lightning, they said, smote upon Celebdil, and leaped back broken into tongues of fire. Is not that enough? A great smoke rose about us, vapour and steam. Ice fell like rain. [b]I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountain-side where he smote it in his ruin.
Then darkness took me; and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell."Gandalf's battle with the balrog ended with him throwing it from the endless stairs of Moria and "breaking" the side of the mountain itself. This was as Gandalf the Grey.
That's just an individual. What exactly could any army in aSoIaF do against LotR's Army of the Dead?
How does anything in aSoIaF compare to Sauron himself?
"Now the lightnings increased and slew men upon the hills, and in the fields, and in the streets of the city; and a fiery bolt smote the dome of the Temple and shore it asunder, and it was wreathed in flame. But the Temple itself was unshaken, and Sauron stood there upon the pinnacle and defied the lightning and was unharmed; and in that hour men called him a god and did all that he would."
- Akallabêth; Silmarillion p 280Sauron is able to defend the island of Numenor from the wrath of the Valar, a council of angels who can reshape continents with their power. He managed this feat while separated from his ring.
"Sauron, greatest and most terrible of the servants of Morgoth, who in the Sindarin tongue was named Gorthaur, came against Orodreth, the warden of the tower upon Tol Sirion. Sauron was become now a sorcerer of dreadful power, master of shadows and of phantoms, foul in wisdom, cruel in strength, misshaping what he touched, twisting what he ruled, lord of werewolves; his dominion was torment. He took Minas Tirith by assault, for a dark cloud of fear fell upon those that defended it; and Orodreth was driven out, and fled to Nargothrond."
- Quenta Silmarillon Ch. 18 “Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin”; Silmarillion p 155-156Just some feats of his sorcery, casting a "dark cloud of fear" upon the whole of Minas Tirith's defense, allowing it to be easily taken. A huge advantage in a battle.
"‘I wonder if this is a contrivance of the Enemy,’ said Boromir. ‘They say in my land that he can govern the storms in the Mountains of Shadow that stand upon the borders of Mordor. He has strange powers and many allies.’
‘His arm has grown long indeed,’ said Gimli, ‘if he can draw snow down from the North to trouble us here three hundred leagues away.’
‘His arm has grown long,’ said Gandalf."
- The Lord of the Rings, book 2, ch 3 “The Ring Goes South”; FotR p 377A commentary on Sauron's capabilities. Though it is not confirmed that Sauron is the cause of the weather impeding their progress, Gandalf does acknowledge that it is possible, and being that Gandalf is himself a Maia and has known Sauron since the dawn of time, he would be aware of his capabilities.
'Guards were set at the haven of Morionde in the east of the land, where the rocks are dark, watching at the king's command without ceasing for the ships' return. It was night, but there was a bright Moon. They descried ships far off, and they seemed to be sailing west at a speed greater than the storm, though there was little wind. Suddenly the sea became unquiet; it rose until it became like a mountain, and it rolled upon the land. The ships were lifted up, and cast far inland, and lay in the fields. Upon that ship which was cast highest and stood dry upon a hill there was a man, or one in man's shape, but greater than any even of the race of Numenor in stature.
"He stood upon the rock and said: "This is done as a sign of power. For I am Sauron the mighty, servant of the Strong" (wherein he spoke darkly). "I have come. Be glad, men of Numenor, for I will take thy king to be my king, and the world shall be given into his hand."
- The Silmarillion, couldn't find the pageSauron creates a massive wave which lifts the ships of Numenor, pretty cut and dry.
How about Smaug?
"They had hardly gone any distance down the tunnel when a blow smote the side of the Mountain like the crash of battering-rams made of forest oaks and swung by giants. The rock boomed, the walls cracked and stones fell from the roof on their heads[...]while behind them outside they heard the roar and rumble of Smaug's fury. He was breaking rocks to pieces, smashing wall and cliff with the lashings of his huge tail..." - The Hobbit
Smaug laying waste to the mountain he resided in.
And how far back does this go? Because if we are using all LotR books, then that means the Valar and the most powerful Maiar could be used. Or Melkor, the original Dark Lord and Sauron's master, can be used.
"Yet it is told among the Eldar that the Valar endeavoured ever, in despite of Melkor, to rule the Earth and to prepare it for the coming of the Firstborn; and they built lands and Melkor destroyed them; valleys they delved and Melkor raised them up; mountains they carved and Melkor threw them down; seas they hollowed and Melkor spilled them; and naught might have peace or come to lasting growth, for as surely as the Valar began a labour so would Melkor undo it or corrupt it. And yet their labour was not all in vain; and though nowhere and in no work was their will and purpose wholly fulfilled, and all things were in hue and shape other than the Valar had at first intended, slowly nonetheless the Earth was fashioned and made firm. And thus was the habitation of the Children of Iluvatar established at the last in the Deeps of Time and amidst the innumerable stars."
-- The Silmarillion"Then Morgoth sent forth a terrible cry, that echoed in the mountains. Therefore that region was called Lammoth; for the echoes of his voice dwelt there ever after, so that any who cried aloud in that land awoke them, and all the waste between the hills and the sea was filled with a clamour as of voices in anguish. The cry of Morgoth in that hour was the greatest and most dreadful that was ever heard in the northern world; the mountains shook, and the earth trembled, and rocks were riven asunder."
- The Silmarillion, Of the Flight of the Noldor, Chapter 9, page 85Morgoth's voice alone can shake mountains and shatter stone.
There or other feats I couldn't quite find, like his laying waste to armies with gouts of flame.
Furthermore, when the Valar and Maia wage war, entire sections of the world are irrevocably destroyed.
"Thus, an end was made of the power of Angband in the North, and the evil realm was brought to naught; and out of hope into the light of day, and they looked upon a world that was changed. For so great was the fury of those adversaries that the northern regions of the western world were rent asunder, and the sea roared in through many chasms, and there was confusion and great noise; and rivers perished or found new pathsm and the valleys were upheaved and the hills trod down; and Sirion (the river) was no more." - The Silmarillion
For reference on what was lost:
The section underwater is what used to be Beleriand.
Here's an example of the kind of beings who fought in the War of Wrath.
"But Eärendil came, shining with white flame, and about Vingilot were gathered all the great birds of heaven and Thorondor was their captain, and there was battle in the air all the day and through a dark night of doubt. Before the rising of the sun Eärendil slew Ancalagon the Black, the mightiest of the dragon-host, and cast him from the sky; and he fell upon the towers of Thangorodrim, and they were broken in his ruin." - The Silmarillion
What are the towers of Thangorodrim? They aren't actually towers. They're mountains.
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Thangorodrim
The tallest in the world in fact, destroyed by this one gigantic dragon's fall. Ancalagon could literally fit Balerion the Black Dread in its mouth.
LotR stomps. 👆 [/B]
First of all! Aragon has faced brainless stupid foes. Jaime Lannister wouldn't even struggle in cutting that proud neck open.
Am not saying Gandalf isn't impressive. But he can't kill an entire army himself. Besides he will be busy counteracting Red Witches and Warlog's dark magics.
Don't underestimate the army of the dead. I don't see why those Orcs are any more formidable!
The Greenseers can Counter Act Souron's magic and spells. The White Walkers can do so too. The Children of the Forest...Same story. Sauron is an OVER RATED VILLAIN. HE WAS KILLED AFTER HIS FINGERS GO SLASHED!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA WOW SO IMPRESSIVE!
We got 3 DRAGONS. You got one. We got hundreds of SCORPIONS and DRAGON KILLER ARROWS. You got ONLY 1 BLACK ARROW! As shown in the Hobbit films. We got the ICE SPEARS and HUNDREDS OF WW.
-SMAUG will be as vulnerable as a sheep. While my dragons are in less peril. Also once SMAUG falls, we will have an ICE SMAUG for our army. Why don't you go and reconsider that.
NO. THE OP DIDN'T STATED THAT STORIES AND THE PAST WOULD TAKE PART. ELSE THINGS WOULD GET MUCH MORE COMPLICATED IN TERMS OF DRAGONS, TROOPS, POWERS, ETC. AND STILL I DOUBT LOTR CAN WIN.
But following your MOCKERY. (Again this won't take part of the battle since the OP didn't state it)
"According to the ironborn legend, Nagga was the first sea dragon, able to feed on krakens and leviathans and drown islands when angry. The Grey King, helped by the Drowned God, managed to slay her on the shores of the island Old Wyk and built there his hall out of her bones. Her jaws became his throne and her teeth made his crown. He warmed his hall with her living fire. However, when the Grey King died, the Storm God drowned out her fire and the sea took the throne. Only her bones that made the pillars and beams remain".
OHHH, expect TSUNAMIS in your COASTLINES.
"King Durran, also known as Durran Godsgrief, was a legendary First Men figure of the Age of Heroes and the first of the Storm Kings, who ruled the Stormlands until the Targaryen invasion of Westeros. According to legend, Durran won the love of Elenei, daughter of the sea god and the wind goddess, and took her as his wife.
In rage, the gods sent a storm to destroy his keep over Shipbreaker Bay, killing his family and guests. Declaring war against them, Durran built new castles, each larger and more formidable than the previous one, though all were the destroyed by the divine storms. Finally, the seventh castle, which Durran built with the aid of either the Children of the Forest or a very young Bran the Builder, withstood the rage of the gods and became known as Storm's End, while Durran earned the nickname of "Durran's Godsgrief" and ruled as the first Storm King"
Uhhh. I don't see why we should fear Morgoth or Sauron in that case! A man who defied the GODS!! What are mere MAGICIANS in comparisson of Gods?
We would also have Brandon the Builder! Expect a HUGE ICE WALL! WITH POWERFUL ENCHANTMENTS NO ORC COULD CROSS!
"During the war of the First Men and the children of the forest, greenseers are said to have turned trees into warriors[5] and sent beasts against humans.[6] As the tales go, they used the hammer of the waters to shatter the Arm of Dorne into the Broken Arm and the Stepstones, but the First Men continued to settle throughout Westeros.[3] The Neck was also flooded by their magic.[4] The greenseers and wood dancers of the children agreed upon the Pact with the First Men at the Isle of Faces."
We WOULD HAVE HUNDREDS OF GREENSEERS! Expect Warrior Trees, animals turn into weapons. AND FLOODS IN MAJOR CITIES.
AND I COULD GO ON AND ON WITH TALES OF ASOIF. I COULD BRING SO MANY CHARACTERS FROM THE PAST THAT LOTR DEFEAT IS CERTAIN!
So, lets not get the past involve into this please! We don't want havoc!
IN CONCLUSION: Before you go mocking and making fun of other people's comments go to the bathroom and take out your personal problems. Don't bring them here, and try to release your anger with people of the community!!! Furthermore, make a little research before taking a side!
Originally posted by NemeBro
Peter Jackson's word means less than nothing here. This is book versions.
First of all, no. His words mean a lot. The OP was refering to the Movies. So, that it is.
I doubt the Numbers in the Movies and in the Books differ from one another! That WOULD MAKE NO SENSE! ASOIF and GOT shows' numbers don't differ that much. So i am not gonna take it as if PETER JACKSON'S WORDS were incorrect. I believe he gave an accurate approximation!
I've made my researches and I've Reached to the Conclusion that Sauron's Armies shouldn't exceed 200K!! A lot of internet Webpages support this. I will give several links to support my claim:
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/123528/how-large-were-sarumans-and-saurons-armies
http://www.lotrplaza.com/archives/index.php?Archive=First%20Age&TID=157027
As you may notice. These are forums and there is back up evidence. Also some claim that the 200k Troops is an exaggeration and that the numbers should actually be less than 100K.
To put it fair I SHALL ASSUME SAURON has 150K.
NOW! Throughout the Movies and Books it was Know that Sauron's Army OUTNUMBERED that of the ALLIES. So the Allies would probably have 100K soldiers or less.
That adds up to 250K soldiers.
Adding that to the HOBBIT FILMS the total number of troops should be arround 350-400K strong. Then just add the catapults and other weaponry.
HAVING SAID THAT!
ASOIF DEFINELTY OUTNUMBERS LOTR!!!
Only the ARMY OF THE DEAD can equal the number of LoTR armies!
I would say that ASOIF got 2X or more the number of troops LoTR has.
I can give you exact numbers if you wish.....Now. Any commander would know that he/she is facing CERTAIN DOOM against twice numbers....
I believe ASOIF got this won.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Jaime Lannister could defeat Glorfindel. I doubt he is a better swordsmen than him.
Glorfindel MAD'd a Balrog, same Balrogs destroy mountainsides by falling on them. He would effortlessly fodderise any GoT character, Lannister included
Aragorn too would fodderise Lannister
