Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Ben is superior to his ROTS self. Ahsoka has contended with Vader, Ben's equal, on a ds nexus and hence can be assumed to be close with him.Being generous, as TCW Kenobi has fought evenly with TCW Maul, it's fair to assume ROTS Kenobi and SOD Maul are on the same level as duelists.
TCW Maul's inferior version has decisively handled Qui-Gon Jinn, who has multiple staements placing him as one of the most skilled jedi in history.
Even with this incredibly nerfed scaing I've scaling the two so that I don't have to get into another repetitive argument about Rebels Maul or Maul's performances vs Kenobi we still get the following line of scaling:
Ben>ROTS Kenobi~SOD Maul>TPM Maul>One of the best swordsmen in history
and:
Ben >~ Ahsoka> ROTS Kenobi ~ SOD Maul >TPM Maul >One of the best duelists in history
Even setting aside the aforementioned points of contention, that's still multiple levels of scaling above the best duelists in history. That's not something either Arcann or Ulic have anything as impressive as.
This is the argument? I assume we're using only canon (with physicals roughly equalized), given these are Rebels characters. The only argument here I see is somewhat arbitrary scaling. But what do these individual characters have in terms of canon feats that makes this line of scaling impressive enough to compete with or defeat Arcann and Uliq?
Originally posted by nfactor1995
[B]This is the argument? I assume we're using only canon (with physicals roughly equalized), given these are Rebels characters. The only argument here I see is somewhat arbitrary scaling.
Originally posted by nfactor1995
But what do these individual characters have in terms of canon feats that makes this line of scaling impressive enough to compete with or defeat Arcann and Uliq?
Ulic faced Exar Kun in an absolute stalemate which would've lasted hours. That's hours of absolutely immaculate swordsmanship, zero mistakes or slips. That's an insane feat, against one of the greatest swordsman in all of history, revered for all-time. This is all before Ulic's powers grow massively, and his skills get even sharper.
Please tell me how anybody short of Vader, is holding a candle to that.
Arcann? He scales off of Revan, who whilst massively pre-prime and hindered by the Star Forge, was capable of defeating SF! Malak through his Force powers. A SF! Malak who must scale so far above the likes of Karness Muur that he's right up with prime Vader and Krayt. Given that, Arcann kicks their shit in.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Either member of team one beats either member of team two, though I have Vader above either member of team one, so this fight won't be a stomp but the winning team is pretty obvious to me.
If Vader's superior to either, then team 1 has very little room for error here. At the very best Team 1 could be inferior to Ben and superior to Ahsoka, though there's a far larger range of possible placements for the team that place them below either as duelists.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Ulic faced Exar Kun in an absolute stalemate which would've lasted hours. That's hours of absolutely immaculate swordsmanship, zero mistakes or slips. That's an insane feat, against one of the greatest swordsman in all of history, revered for all-time. This is all before Ulic's powers grow massively, and his skills get even sharper.Please tell me how anybody short of Vader, is holding a candle to that.
Arcann? He scales off of Revan, who whilst massively pre-prime and hindered by the Star Forge, was capable of defeating SF! Malak through his Force powers. A SF! Malak who must scale so far above the likes of Karness Muur that he's right up with prime Vader and Krayt. Given that, Arcann kicks their shit in.
Arcann doesn't take shit from Revan.
Originally posted by AncientPower
]Ulic faced Exar Kun in an absolute stalemate which would've lasted hours. That's hours of absolutely immaculate swordsmanship, zero mistakes or slips. That's an insane feat, against one of the greatest swordsman in all of history, revered for all-time. This is all before Ulic's powers grow massively, and his skills get even sharper.
Ben stalemated Vader and is superior to his ROTS self who has, as off TCW, outperformed Maul who, as mentioned above, as of TPM was in a tier above the best swordsmen in history and beat another one of the best swordsmen in historu while dealing with his apprentince who happened to be one of the best jedi in his day.
Simply stalemating one of the best swordsmen of all time is not enough to place you above someone who can beat superior versions of the best duelists of all time.
Originally posted by AncientPower Arcann? He scales off of Revan, who whilst massively pre-prime and hindered by the Star Forge, was capable of defeating SF! Malak through his Force powers. A SF! Malak who must scale so far above the likes of Karness Muur that he's right up with prime Vader and Krayt. Given that, Arcann kicks their shit in.
And you haven't provided anything for the two you've just mentioned in terms of dueling feats.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Ben stalemated Vader and Ahsoka contended with him on a nexus 😬.If Vader's superior to either, then team 1 has very little room for error here. At the very best Team 1 could be inferior to Ben and superior to Ahsoka, though there's a far larger range of possible placements for the team that place them below either as duelists.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of the Vader Ben fight firstly
Originally posted by Emperordmb
, and secondly I don't give two shits about the nexus. If it's not actually noted to be a factor, I doubt it has serious narrative weight in shifting a fight
Originally posted by EmperordmbI don't think she was Vader's equal at all. And there's no need to nitpick here, we both agree the gap between the two is a small one. The point still stands. Team 1 has a small amount of leeway here if they're inferior to someone who both members of team 2 are close to.
, and it was a fight that I disagree on being as close as you seem to think it was. She contended yes. She was not Vader's equal though.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Much like Dooku, these characters can be put between Ahsoka and Vader.