I think this could be a good fight.
RKT's implied power puts him around Odin-level(perhaps slightly higher if you give him the benefit of the doubt), and Monarch has some absolutely absurd battle feats -- the best of which are killing/absorbing every version of Captain Atom across the multiverse, and stalemating GA Prime for an extended period of time.)
Imo, RKT's best option in a forum setting would likely be to try and critically rupture Monarch's armor right at the onset. Granted, the subsequent [universe-busting] detonation would undoubtedly kill him, but it still counts as a forum victory on KMC... However, rupturing Monarch's armor to the point of complete failure is easier said then done, as it is insanely durable.
Case in point: a casual blast of HV from a tremendously weakened SBP went through Superman himself like a hot knife through butter:
Flip side, Monarch's armor outright TANKED a blast of HV from an enraged GA Prime, without enduring so much as a scratch:
For a point of reference: casual HV from GA Prime was capable of slagging the phucking Source Wall:
That said, for RKT to even think about rupturing Monarch's armor to the point of *critical failure*(key words, as minor damage to the armor doesn't mean a damn thing) means he either has to generate an energy attack >>>> an enraged GA Prime's HV, OR produce physical strength no less than equal to an enraged Prime's final "I'M SUPERMAN!!!!" haymaker... Not saying it's impossible; just that it certainly wouldn't be easy considering the armor's durability(most people just don't realize how strong it actually was.) 🙂
Originally posted by Galan007
I think this could be a good fight.RKT's implied power puts him around Odin-level(perhaps slightly higher if you give him the benefit of the doubt), and Monarch has some absolutely absurd battle feats -- the best of which are killing/absorbing every version of Captain Atom across the multiverse, and stalemating GA Prime for an extended period of time.)
RKT'S actual power puts him well above Odin honestly.
http://i.imgur.com/YBfnnjQ.png
He had all those who sit in shadow and the fates opposing his action to end Ragnarok, absolutely incapable of stopping him. He had the entirety of the Odin Force as well as mastery of the runes on top of it. If Odin had been able to stop them, he would have. But he was only able to see the solution, if I'm remembering correctly.
Not to mention he has some neat tricks like pulling out your soul.
http://i.imgur.com/OKk9oyL.png
And Loki at the time where he had his head pulled off had stolen the power of Asgard as well as siphoned some from Mangog, so at the very least Thor can casually decapitate trans level characters with a simple yank.
RKT was a high end skyfather, but he was still a skyfather in scope and depth.
Monarch was a universal power, the difference is immense.
Just as RKT as a skyfather was able to casually dominate an arguably Trans level Loki, so too could Monarch effortlessly dominate RKT who is several tiers beneath him, unlike Loki who was arguably one tier below RKT.
Originally posted by DamborgsonHeh, I figured that myth might pop-up again... No, RKT was definitely not "well above" Odin. Tbh, I'm being extremely generous in putting him "slightly" above Odin.
RKT'S actual power puts him well above Odin honestly.
RKT explicitly stated that he could NOT defeat the Fates outright -- he lacked the power to "change what has been written"(which is the Fates' conceptual purpose):
http://i.imgur.com/QiuIiQo.jpg
He beat The Fates, along with TWSAIS, by exploiting a cosmic 'flaw' in one of the strands on the Loom of Fate:
http://i.imgur.com/SipIP02.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dsqqC8C.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gkj9gyL.jpg
That's it. He certainly did not straight-up overpower either party.
It was also explicitly stated that Thor's humanity/mortality is what gave him the advantage over the aforementioned beings, and allowed him to beat them -- NOT his raw power:
http://i.imgur.com/KVEgebH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vx9e5Ek.jpg
I want to emphasize this portion of the above text:
*THAT is why he was able to do what Odin could not.
As for RKT's knowledge/wisdom: it was directly compared to that of Odin:
http://i.imgur.com/b59DTCM.jpg
"You DO have the wisdom of Odin..."
And on that note, it was ODIN himself who masterminded/planned all of the events that led to Thor gaining the Rune-power and overcoming the Fates/TWSAIS. Odin KNEW his son's mortal traits would ultimately allow him to overcome the cycle of Ragnarok -- that's WHY he sent Thor to Earth as a mortal in the first place:
http://i.imgur.com/Skm1TvK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uX6jHv1.jpg
________________________________
As for TWSAIS: they are some of the most vague characters I have ever seen, with ridiculously overinflated/hyperbolic power... Case in point:
http://i.imgur.com/NgDlM9s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u4VCg9P.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bapLsML.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Kf7kJzg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/a9Bsnj1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9ET1VZl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qX86VSH.jpg
*Not only were they unable to defeat Loki, but he basically made them look like a gaggle of doltish buffoons.
Mind you, TWSAIS had hyperbole'd the shit out of their own powers in the issue prior -- they basically acted like they WERE the phucking Beyonders, lol:
http://i.imgur.com/U9dkm0N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BldHWjr.jpg
Suffice to say: their word is far from irrefutable. 😉
________________________________
Anywho, I personally think RKT's best display of raw power is when he casually beat an amped Loki. Granted, the exact depth/scale of Loki's amp is ambiguous at best, but we still know that he was amped to *some* noteworthy degree... But even that showing doesn't skyrocket RKT to these Skyfather+++ levels that some seem to think, imo -- I could see a decently-written Odin doing the exact same thing, for example... /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, I figured that myth might pop-up again here... No, RKT was definitely not "well above" Odin. Tbh, I'm being extremely generous putting him "slightly" above Odin.RKT explicitly stated that he could NOT defeat the Fates outright -- he lacked the power to "change what has been written"(which is the Fates' conceptual purpose):
http://i.imgur.com/QiuIiQo.jpgHe beat The Fates, along with TWSAIS, by exploiting a cosmic 'flaw' in one of the strands on the Loom of Fate:
http://i.imgur.com/SipIP02.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dsqqC8C.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gkj9gyL.jpg
That's it. He certainly did not straight-up overpower either party.It was also explicitly stated that Thor's humanity/mortality is what gave him the advantage over the aforementioned beings, and allowed him to beat them -- NOT his raw power:
http://i.imgur.com/KVEgebH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vx9e5Ek.jpgI want to emphasize this portion of the above text:
*THAT is why he was able to do what Odin could not.
As for RKT's knowledge/wisdom: it was directly compared to that of Odin:
http://i.imgur.com/b59DTCM.jpg
"You DO have the wisdom of Odin..."And on that note, it was ODIN himself who masterminded/planned all of the events that led to Thor gaining the Rune-power and overcoming the Fates/TWSAIS. Odin KNEW his son's mortal traits would ultimately allow him to overcome the cycle of Ragnarok -- that's WHY he sent Thor to Earth as a mortal in the first place:
http://i.imgur.com/Skm1TvK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uX6jHv1.jpg________________________________
As for TWSAIS: they are some of the most vague characters I have ever seen, with ridiculously overinflated/hyperbolic power... Case in point:
http://i.imgur.com/NgDlM9s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u4VCg9P.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bapLsML.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Kf7kJzg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/a9Bsnj1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9ET1VZl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qX86VSH.jpg
*Not only were they unable to defeat Loki, but he basically made them look like a gaggle of doltish buffoons.Mind you, TWSAIS had hyperbole'd the shit out of their powers in the issue prior -- they basically acted like they were the phucking Beyonders, lol:
http://i.imgur.com/U9dkm0N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BldHWjr.jpgSuffice to say: their word is far from irrefutable. 😉
Well I never thought of it as a myth as much as it just being a logical conclusion, but alright.
You can see TWSAIS getting outshone by him as he raises his hammer. They actually interfere for a moment and put him in their presence again, to which he simply refuses.
http://i.imgur.com/dsqqC8C.jpg
And this action was going to end their existence, they clearly had access to him, both parties did, but didn't do anything, and it's only logical to believe that because...they couldn't. Unless you can think of another reason why they wouldn't have stopped him? True, he wasn't able to alter the will of fates, but then...he did. Regardless of how he did it, the fates have already prestablished what was going to happen, and because of that, they didn't fear him when he arrived. It was all according to plan, until it wasn't and if that isn't defiance I don't know what else would be. -shrug-
Well that's a good point, I think it's fair to say then that that's a plausible explanation for why Odin didn't do it. But because he didn't do it, it's hard to gauge how he would have done in that situation. And since the only other interaction I can think of with TWSAIS and Odin is the one you posted, where they put the fear of death into him, as opposed to Thor simply brushing them off, that still plays well into RKT being above him, wouldn't you agree?
There's also this:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111200398/4874937-3897303259-bYKdS.jpg
The whole point of the arc was Thor walking the path his father hadn't. Going above and beyond what he did, and while it's true, he said that he had the wisdom of Odin, that doesn't mean by itself that it's a cap, just an affirmation, since it's clear he was beyond Odin even in that category from the very scans you posted.
Originally posted by Galan007
Anywho, I personally think RKT's best display of raw power is when he casually beat an amped Loki. Granted, the exact depth/scale of Loki's amp is ambiguous at best, but we still know that he was amped to *some* noteworthy degree... But even that showing doesn't skyrocket RKT to these Skyfather+++ levels that some seem to think, imo -- I could see a decently-written Odin doing the exact same thing, for example... /shrug
Of course it's very impressive. But
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35816/772505-thor_vol__2_85_2.jpg
Still takes the cake, imo 🙂
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Pfft, well that was easier.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17...And this bio contradicts anything I said... HOW, exactly? Regardless, Odin ALSO possessed the Rune-power(that's what led RKT to hang himself in the first place), so... 😕
https://imgur.com/hGqt7VN.jpg
Again: I'm fine with RKT being above Odin... But "well above" is simply a massive overstatement if we're actually using on panel feats/showings, and not just fanmade power-scaling. There are undeniable stipulations behind him defeating the Fates/TWSAIS. You guys can't just ignore them.
Originally posted by Damborgson...So you're opting to ignore the fact that RKT's raw power is NOT what allowed him to defeat TWSAIS, but rather, his humanity/mortality? That was, after all, credited as the sole reason why RKT was able to do what Odin could not, and overcome the cycle of Ragnarok. 😑
Well I never thought of it as a myth as much as it just being a logical conclusion, but alright.You can see TWSAIS getting outshone by him as he raises his hammer. They actually interfere for a moment and put him in their presence again, to which he simply refuses.
http://i.imgur.com/dsqqC8C.jpgAnd this action was going to [b]end their existence
, they clearly had access to him, both parties did, but didn't do anything, and it's only logical to believe that because...they couldn't. Unless you can think of another reason why they wouldn't have stopped him? True, he wasn't able to alter the will of fates, but then...he did. Regardless of how he did it, the fates have already prestablished what was going to happen, and because of that, they didn't fear him when he arrived. It was all according to plan, until it wasn't and if that isn't defiance I don't know what else would be. -shrug-Well that's a good point, I think it's fair to say then that that's a plausible explanation for why Odin didn't do it. But because he didn't do it, it's hard to gauge how he would have done in that situation. And since the only other interaction I can think of with TWSAIS and Odin is the one you posted, where they put the fear of death into him, as opposed to Thor simply brushing them off, that still plays well into RKT being above him, wouldn't you agree?
There's also this:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111200398/4874937-3897303259-bYKdS.jpg
The whole point of the arc was Thor walking the path his father hadn't. Going above and beyond what he did, and while it's true, he said that he had the wisdom of Odin, that doesn't mean by itself that it's a cap, just an affirmation, since it's clear he was beyond Odin even in that category from the very scans you posted. [/B]
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Damborgson
Of course it's very impressive. Buthttps://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35816/772505-thor_vol__2_85_2.jpg
Still takes the cake, imo 🙂
Pfft, well that was easier.
("this is where your father hung himself for nine days and nights...and he gathered the knowledge of the runes!"😉.
Originally posted by Galan007
...And this bio contradicts anything I said... HOW, exactly? 😕
Originally posted by Galan007
Heh, I figured that myth might pop-up again... No, RKT was definitely not "well above" Odin. Tbh, I'm being extremely generous in putting him "slightly" above Odin.
Anyways as for the scene, he may have found "a way", but in the end they seemed absolutely powerless to prevent him from doing something they did not want to happen.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Odin also had the power of runes.("this is where your father hung himself for nine days and nights...and he gathered the knowledge of the runes!"😉.
I would honestly be fine with RKT being 'well above' Odin if anything on panel actually put him on that level. But again: when you actually consider the *full* context of the story itself, and remove any preconceived notions you may have as a fan regarding his 'implied' power, there really isn't any definitive evidence that places him above Odin by a significant amount.
RKT appeared in exactly 2 issues... Here are his feats:
*Killing a weakened Mangog- remember, Loki had siphoned away most of his power by the time RKT killed him.
*Owning an amped Loki- while Loki *was* amped, we really have NO clue what the extent of his amp was. As I mentioned earlier, though: I still consider this to be RKT's best display of raw power, because there are no stips surrounding it. /shrug
*Overcoming the cycle of Ragnarok/TWSAIS/Fates- but again: there were some glaring stipulations behind that feat... Namely Thor's humanity/mortality being credited as the primary reason he was able to accomplish it. We cannot ignore this.
All personal bias aside, I honestly do not see why he should be ranked any higher than 'slightly' above Odin... And it's hard for me to even justify that ranking, tbh.
srug
