NFL likely Concerned with TV Ratings Decline

Originally posted by Digi
Here's a reasonable article that's the what's, why's, etc. of the protests. It's lighter on spin than most articles on the topic, though not devoid of it. But I do think it disambiguates some misconceptions and lays out various common criticisms in recent events:
https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-protests-national-anthem-explained-191623412.html

I tend to always side on supporting peaceful protest, regardless of my level of agreement for/against the cause. You can get pretty far into the weeds on the issues themselves without clear, obvious answers. But the right to protest peacefully should always be respected.

Support for the players' protests is fairly low right now. But then, historical protests that are now viewed favorably were similarly unfavorable at the time in public opinion, such as the 1993 gay rights marches that many claim started that modern movement, as well as surprisingly low approval for revered figures like MLK during the civil rights movement, whose reputation in the public sphere has grown with age.

My other big issue is an unwillingness to listen Everyone's talking. But if there are protests, right or wrong, there are intelligent people behind them. I'm quite removed from racial discrimination in my life. So mostly, I just listen to those who aren't.

Why should we be taking morality lessons from the NFL though? I like sport but its filled with nothing but murders, wife beaters, drug abusers, rapists and criminals. Its also Ironic the media now takes their side, especially the liberal media, when they have been against the sport for a long time, consider it stupid, and could care less if it existed.

I don't turn the TV to get lessons from millionaire SJW warriors on the field who act like they are some specimin of justice.

Ratings are dropping

http://deadline.com/2017/09/redskins-sunday-night-football-ratings-nfl-protests-star-trek-discovery-donald-trump-nbc-1202176141/

Originally posted by Sable
Why should we be taking morality lessons from the NFL though? I like sport but its filled with nothing but murders, wife beaters, drug abusers, rapists and criminals. Its also Ironic the media now takes their side, especially the liberal media, when they have been against the sport for a long time, consider it stupid, and could care less if it existed.

Nobody's taking morality lessons. I'm listening. You can think whatever you want. But shouting down those you disagree with is counter-productive. Civil discussion /= agreement.

There are criminals in the NFL, yes. The indifference to that is one of the reasons I don't follow the NFL as much. But those are actual crimes. Peaceful protest is not, in fact it's constitutionally protected. I prefer to save my vitriol for actual crimes, and the individuals who commit them, and don't lump every action nor every person into the same bucket. There are a bunch of reasons I dislike the NFL. It's not an easily defensible league in some respects, moral, legal or otherwise. But this hasn't been one of them.

And yes, there's some irony in coverage. NFL fans trend a bit conservative, though obviously there are enough of them to defy easy categorization. But it's the players - and now owners - taking the lead here, not the media.

But Im not shouting down anyone.

Steelers literally have a QB has been accused multiple times of sexual assault, and the constitution and this country gives him the right to still be on that field. He chose to hide in shame on Sunday from the anthem which represents this country that has given him his freedom from already being in jail.

Total irony, glad we agree. The media has been lambasting NFL fans, the game as a whole for a long time. Now they turn to them to be the shining example of social justice.

I assure you this will come back to bite them in the ass. Without a doubt a few of these players kneeling, not showing up, or raising a fist will likely be convicted of one or many of the crimes I listed above. Will the media correlate that and call them hypocrites? No chance in hell.

Originally posted by Sable
But Im not shouting down anyone.

Steelers literally have a QB has been accused multiple times of sexual assault, and the constitution and this country gives him the right to still be on that field. He chose to hide in shame on Sunday from the anthem which represents this country that has given him his freedom from already being in jail.

Total irony, glad we agree. The media has been lambasting NFL fans, the game as a whole for a long time. Now they turn to them to be the shining example of social justice.

I assure you this will come back to bite them in the ass. Without a doubt a few of these players kneeling, not showing up, or raising a fist will likely be convicted of one or many of the crimes I listed above. Will the media correlate that and call them hypocrites? No chance in hell.

The NFL isn't a shining example of anything. They're correctly supporting peaceful protests. They're guilty of numerous other injustices that aren't related to that fact. So a reliably insightful media source shouldn't be glowing all the time, nor critical all the time.

Just like decrying Roethlisberger's situation, which I don't disagree with (though anger might be better directed toward our justice system there, not the NFL specifically), but that isn't an indictment of the protests in general. I'm also not sure what media you're watching, but the media in general destroys those convicted of crimes. I think there's less of a double standard than you believe.

And again, yes, the anthem represents multiple freedoms. Including the right of peaceful protest for perceived injustices. Players and coaches have gone out of their way to say what this isn't about - it's not about the military, it's not about disrespecting the flag, etc. etc. But to get past that to hear their points, we have to listen.

Racial injustice is real, Trump calling for the jobs of people kneeling (an insanely dangerous precedent imo) is real. Maybe this will be ineffectual as a protest, and maybe it's not the best way to bring it to light (though it's doing great in that respect so far), and maybe there are other issues with the delivery. But it's speaking to real fears of Americans.

The problem with the NFL doing this is they are the wrong messenger. Those people on that field live in Ivory Towers, their children all go to the best schools, they have protection, they have money. Their league is plagued with crime and drugs and domestic abuse. So yes, they are the wrong messengers.

The coaches can say what they want, they are paid to win, and lose if they don't. I don't believe for a second these people have anything else on their minds besides winning. They practice 2-3 times a day, all they focus on is winning next week.

Standing for racial injustice instead of sitting on kneeling or not showing up speaks volumes, standing for something means something, not showing up means nothing.

Racial injustice is real, but like I said, these players are not apart of it, and the wrong messenger.

Originally posted by Sable
The problem with the NFL doing this is they are the wrong messenger. Those people on that field live in Ivory Towers, their children all go to the best schools, they have protection, they have money. Their league is plagued with crime and drugs and domestic abuse. So yes, they are the wrong messengers.

Perhaps, but that doesn't forfeit their right to be messengers. They have the public spotlight, after all. Protests aren't meant to be quiet, they're meant to be uncomfortable, and poor kids in the country's ghettos aren't going to stir up the public discourse regardless of what they experience.

Originally posted by Sable
Standing for racial injustice instead of sitting on kneeling or not showing up speaks volumes, standing for something means something, not showing up means nothing.

You're conflating physically standing with symbolically standing here. They're absolutely standing for something.

Originally posted by Sable
Racial injustice is real, but like I said, these players are not apart of it, and the wrong messenger.

It's not a stretch to say that a TON of football players came from poverty and hardship. They're not strangers to injustice. Money doesn't invalidate one's opinion, nor the importance of the topic. But you seem entrenched in ad hominem responses to broad cultural problems.

If they are the wrong messenger then yes, absolutely. Considering how NFL fans have been treated by the media in the past, this is ultimate hypocrisy.

Standing means standing. If an NFL team decided to not show up for a game and forfeit it, that would be viewed as horrible, but if they don't show up for the anthem its patriotic. Please.

Originally posted by Sable
Ratings are dropping

http://deadline.com/2017/09/redskins-sunday-night-football-ratings-nfl-protests-star-trek-discovery-donald-trump-nbc-1202176141/

Funny thing, the one Steeler player who went out during the anthem? Who served in the military previously? Sales of his jersey increased a lot since online since what he did.

Originally posted by Digi
But if there are protests, right or wrong, there are intelligent people behind them.

You can't be talking about protests in general, right?

Liberal Media already back to trying to stir controversy in NFL between players and owners.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/sports/nfl-owners-unity-protests.html?referer=http://drudgereport.com/

Originally posted by Surtur
You can't be talking about protests in general, right?

Peaceful protest is a hallmark of nearly any functioning democracy. And historically, it's been a great way to bring awareness and spur change. So yes. Violent protest is another matter, so I should have made that distinction, though in the spirit of this specific discussion, that demarcation line should be fairly clear.

Unless you're wanting to dig into the average IQ scores of football players or something (and, at this point, including coaches, owners, etc.). But that's a different angle entirely, and not one I was getting at when I made the previous comment.

Originally posted by Digi
Peaceful protest is a hallmark of nearly any functioning democracy. And historically, it's been a great way to bring awareness and spur change. So yes. Violent protest is another matter, so I should have made that distinction, though in the spirit of this specific discussion, that demarcation line should be fairly clear.

Unless you're wanting to dig into the average IQ scores of football players or something (and, at this point, including coaches, owners, etc.). But that's a different angle entirely, and not one I was getting at when I made the previous comment.

People protested Ben Shapiro saying he was a white supremacist. Can you explain how someone is intelligent and thinks that?