Originally posted by carver9As of now, there is no definitive evidence that puts Jiren on par with the most powerful Destroyers, like Beerus and Quitela -- but even if he is, Whis can still casually one-shot Beerus-level beings. If Whis takes this fight seriously, it'd be over before Goku/Jiren even knew what was happening, imo.
If Whis can one shot Goku and Jiren, he is unimaginably powerful. I just don't know about this.
Remember, all this time/training since DBS began, and Goku is still striving just to match Beerus... Whis is on an entirely different level.
Originally posted by bbrem123Yeah, the series has strongly hinted at Whis training them as potential replacements for Beerus, but considering that Goku has made it clear he wants NOTHING to do with that role, there's obviously something else that keeps Whis interested(and I don't think it's juts earth food, lol.)
Make me wonder if Whis is secretly teaching Goku and Vegeta to become GoDs. I say this because Goku is now able to use Hakai in the manga.Technically Vegeta already agreed to it.
Maybe he just wants to see how far he can take mortals up the totem pole..? /shrug
By all implications, Jiren is the first mortal to ever truly reach GoD-levels of power, which means NO mortal has ever remotely approached Angel-levels.
If an Angel dies, that universe's GoD would be free to blindly rampage with no recourse. This would eventually cause a cosmic/universal imbalance that would annoy Daishinkan and Zen-Oh, and likely result in that continuum being erased.
Originally posted by Galan007Since Toppo is being trained to be next GoD, and Vegeta and Goku being trained for GoD wouldn't you think that all GoDs have been mortal at one time? That something happens when the title is switched?
By all implications, Jiren is the first mortal to ever truly reach GoD-levels of power, which means NO mortal has ever remotely approached Angel-levels.
Originally posted by KentoPerhaps.
Since Toppo is being trained to be next GoD, and Vegeta and Goku being trained for GoD wouldn't you think that all GoDs have been mortal at one time? That something happens when the title is switched?
But given their age(Beerus, for example, has been a Destroyer for "hundredS of millionS of years", and the other GoDs are implied to be just as ancient) it's also quite possible that the original GoDs featured in DBS were divinely 'bred/grown' in a similar nature to the Kaioshin... Especially given the intimate link Kaioshin and GoDs share with one another.
Regarding the origin of Kaioshin(ie. Supreme Kais)-
Q: The Kaioshin are said to have the highest status in the universe, but how can you become a Kaioshin?Toriyama: No one can. Kaioshin are born as Kaioshin. There are three of them, and they work in shifts. Though there are two of them on duty now, if one of the Kaioshin were to die in an accident, then the currently-inactive Kaioshin would grow in the Kaioshin Realm like a plant.
Regarding the 'Kaioshin Realm'-
Toriyama: There is a planet, called the World Core [Kaishin-sei] where the Kaio are born and raised. It's a world like a gigantic Planet Kaio, and Kaio-sama and his peers are born as Core People [Shin-jin] from the fruit of the World Core's giant World Tree [Kaiju]. The planet's population is about 80. At a castle that's like a school, they learn a variety of things, and live an easygoing life; however, if a Kaio dies on one of the Kaio Planets, the next Kaio is chosen from among them by lottery. However, a Kaioshin is chosen only from Core People who are born from a special golden fruit, which rarely occurs. In addition, there are occasionally delinquent Core People with evil hearts; these ones fall under the Makaio.
*Note, these interviews were released a few years ago, so some of the tidbits Toriyama mentioned in them have been retconned in DBS continuity. However, the part about Kaio and Kaioshin essentially being 'grown' still holds true, afaik.
That's still true. Toriyama's comment made it sound like they pop out of the nursery full fledge Kaioshins, instead of needing a training period.
Could make a good story of the Kaioshin that couldn't cut it. Zamasu kind of was that, but he chose to throw it all away, instead of simply not measuring up.
It could also be they take over no matter what, explaining all the fairly incompetent bosses. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007But with how diverse the GoDs are compared to Angels and Kai it makes more sense that they aren't grown or bred. Belmond gives exact years he has been one in the manga. Instead of just saying since time began or the beginning of everything which makes me think he isn't even the first. And that becoming a GoD involves some ritual and linking to the Angel and Kaioshin of your universe. Otherwise why would they use mortals as replacements?
Perhaps.But given their age(Beerus, for example, has been a Destroyer for "hundredS of millionS of years", and the other GoDs are implied to be just as ancient) it's also quite possible that the original GoDs featured in DBS were divinely 'bred/grown' in a similar nature to the Kaioshin... Especially given the intimate link Kaioshin and GoDs share with one another.
But we might never know.
Originally posted by Kento
But with how diverse the GoDs are compared to Angels and Kai it makes more sense that they aren't grown or bred. Belmond gives exact years he has been one in the manga. Instead of just saying since time began or the beginning of everything which makes me think he isn't even the first. And that becoming a GoD involves some ritual and linking to the Angel and Kaioshin of your universe. Otherwise why would they use mortals as replacements?But we might never know.
There's also the fact Whis and Beerus keeps pestering Goku to consider the job.. In the manga, Beerus says "Become a God of Destruction! It's not a bad job! You get to eat all you want, sleep all day, don't have to work much!"
Not much point enticing him if you can only be born into it.
Originally posted by KentoOh, I'm not saying that you *have* to be born as a GoD to be a GoD -- we KNOW that isn't the case. The fact that Toppo, a mortal, is Belmond's replacement(and Daishinkan -the #2 authority in the multiverse- is perfectly fine with it) shatters that notion.
But with how diverse the GoDs are compared to Angels and Kai it makes more sense that they aren't grown or bred. Belmond gives exact years he has been one in the manga. Instead of just saying since time began or the beginning of everything which makes me think he isn't even the first. And that becoming a GoD involves some ritual and linking to the Angel and Kaioshin of your universe. Otherwise why would they use mortals as replacements?But we might never know.
I'm just saying that it *seems* like the GoDs we've seen in DBS are the original Destroyers, as there has been no mention of them being preceded by others thus far. And judging by how unanimously shocked the Destroyers and Angels are that a mortal could possibly be on par with a GoD makes me think the originals were bred/created specifically for the task -- much like the Kaioshin and Angels seem to have been bred/created specifically for their tasks. /shrug
But yeah, we may never know one way or the other.