Originally posted by Azronger
It doesn't refer to the Order; it just refers to Jedi. Whether they were part of the Order or not doesn't have any significance. They continued to grow regardless.
To add to this point, I realized none of the quotes about PT being the prime refer to the Jedi Order. The KotOR CG does. You can be a Jedi without being a part of the Order, so PT being the prime of the Jedi and KotOR being the prime of the Order as an insitution are not contradictory notions.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Spoiler:
Hence why I don't put KotOR as the prime of the Jedi eitherRather than point out the issues with the KotORCG quote, which anyone can recognize, justify the positioning that the PT era is instead the golden age, which is my main issue with this entire thread. I use the KotORCG quote to counter the mindless "PT is the supreme era" nonsense. I find it amusing the only legitimate claim to it is actually TotJ / KotOR. Every PT era quote is wonderfully ambiguous and distorted in use.
It's not that I rule out the PT to other eras like TotJ or KotOR. I don't have a solid opinion on which era I even consider the "golden age." The prequel trilogy very well may be the best era, but such an opinion isn't rooted in evidence - quite the contrary, actually. My point is you (and others) are trying to write this PT supremacy as G-Canon law, which it isn't. You even passively admitted in the above post that there are indeed issues with the notion and ambiguity surrounding the Lucas quotes.
This in response to BlueTiger or me?
(My last post got bumped to last page. Check out, Az.)
Originally posted by Azronger
To add to this point, I realized none of the quotes about PT being the prime refer to the Jedi Order. The KotOR CG does. You can be a Jedi without being a part of the Order, so PT being the prime of the Jedi and KotOR being the prime of the Order as an insitution are not contradictory notions.
Except the KotOR quotes attribute KotOR's supremacy being an era filled with warfare. As per the quote, KotOR is absolute in both the institution-respect and the fighting-respect. The comments on the Sith and the Mandalorians are not relevant to the Jedi's power as an institution and, if anything, damaging.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I use the KotORCG quote to counter the mindless "PT is the supreme era" nonsense.
Lucas's first quote is very clearly in the context of an individual combatant's ability
The third quote specifically references how powerful the masters are, not the institution.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Spoiler:
Hence why I don't put KotOR as the prime of the Jedi eitherRather than point out the issues with the KotORCG quote, which anyone can recognize, justify the positioning that the PT era is instead the golden age, which is my main issue with this entire thread. I use the KotORCG quote to counter the mindless "PT is the supreme era" nonsense. I find it amusing the only legitimate claim to it is actually TotJ / KotOR. Every PT era quote is wonderfully ambiguous and distorted in use.
It's not that I rule out the PT to other eras like TotJ or KotOR. I don't have a solid opinion on which era I even consider the "golden age." The prequel trilogy very well may be the best era, but such an opinion isn't rooted in evidence - quite the contrary, actually. My point is you (and others) are trying to write this PT supremacy as G-Canon law, which it isn't.
I already listed several validations for PT paramountcy, none of which you from the looks of things noticed. But once again, no one needs to justify facts. Facts are, by their very definition, absolute truths. They don't require further validation - otherwise they would not be facts.
And given you completely ignored my other point, the CWCG quote does indeed remain factual: the Jedi grew as the Republic grew, meaning they'd be more capable of solving crises as time went on. The Clone Wars take place later in history than the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War, so per that statement, the Jedi are better during the former than they were during the latter two.
You even passively admitted in the above post that there are indeed issues with the notion and ambiguity surrounding the Lucas quotes.
Enlighten me. Not that I used Lucas' quotes to argue this in the first place anyway.
Except the KotOR quotes attribute KotOR's supremacy being an era filled with warfare. As per the quote, KotOR is absolute in both the institution-respect and the fighting-respect. The comments on the Sith and the Mandalorians are not relevant to the Jedi's power as an institution and, if anything, damaging.
That's fair.
Azronger still doesn't grasp the concept of the Star Wars mythos growing outside the touch of Lucas, that Azronger's interpretation could be wrong, or that he was only comparing the Pt to the Ot era. It's about as cringe worthy as some religious zealot swearing up and down his interpretation of some text is the only way to interpret said information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liEtSzWZPFo
There's also this, which is literally titled "the prime of the Jedi."
All these quotes about "primes" can have multiple potential interpretations, but if we're trying to judge the upper tiers of each era there isn't even a legitimate conversation: which era of Jedi had people to match Yoda, Anakin, Mace Windu and Obi Wan again? Heck Yoda, Mace and Jedi Dooku all have quotes placing them above every Jedi before them, so literally we have an example of the most powerful "record" being broken three times, four if you include Anakin.