Sutherland Springs, TX shooting

Originally posted by Robtard
I'll read it all later, but just skimming it doesn't seem to outright "bust" the issue, just that some things are not as bad as they appear, but some things are still an issue, like people can still avoid a background check and legally get a gun in some instances.

I agree with you...sort of. It's not legal if they broke the law to get it (skirting around background checks).

And lying on a gun app and getting lucky (like the shooter) is a felony. But it's a hole that should be patched, right?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The overall suicide rate shouldn't be the basis for judging the effects of gun policy, because the overall suicide rate is going to be influenced by a sh!tload of things other than gun policy.

Why not? If stricter gun laws don't actually reduce suicide rates, then why the hell are you wasting time on a non sequitur policy like that? It's just stupid. Focus on actually solving the problem if you care about suicides.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Why not? If stricter gun laws don't actually reduce suicide rates, then why the hell are you wasting time on a non sequitur policy like that? It's just stupid. Focus on actually solving the problem if you care about suicides.

The idea of using gun policy to address gun related-violence while using other policies to address the causes which have a much bigger influence on overall rates(mental health for example) aren't mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by Kurk
What's the correlation between gunlaws and homicides by cities?

The problem with going city by city is you can ban guns in Chicago and the Chicago gangsters just buy their guns elsewhere. That isn't quite as true on the federal level with a country like England; they have been much more successful at lowering the number of guns on the streets.

But this is essentially a non-starter in terms of US policy. The 2nd amendment isn't going anywhere, and the bans on so called "assault weapons" and shit like that would be unlikely to really yield any significant results.

Another thing to remember is these mass shootings are the number 1 way the gun debate gets brought up... and it's really an outlier issue with regard to the American homicide rate. The biggest problem in this country with murder is the number of illegal guns on the black market... and the majority of the murders are committed with these illegal guns. It seems like this is an issue that would be easier to try to tackle than mass shootings, which are pretty random. Yet for whatever reason the 600+ murders this year systematically carried out by criminal organizations in Chicago alone seem to motivate us much less than the handful of high profile massacres carried out by suicidal nutcases.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The overall suicide rate shouldn't be the basis for judging the effects of gun policy, because the overall suicide rate is going to be influenced by a sh!tload of things other than gun policy. On the other hand gun related deaths likely have something to do with gun policy.

If because of your policy instead of somebody blowing their brains out with a gun, they climb up to the roof of a building and swan dive off of it for the ground and die, then your policy hasn't actually done anything to help that person. It being no longer reflected in the gun suicide statistic but only in the overall statistic is not evidence that your policy has actually had a positive impact.

I dunno about between cities, but I believe that guns are a big part of the high homicide rates in the US.

The main way to address overall crime is to address the systematic failings within our society that give it furtile ground to flourish.

Like for example: gentrification, segreated schools, making it incredibly difficult for ex-convicts to get by legally, enviromental discrimination, a lack of stabilized rents, wages for the poor that aren't suffiecient to get by on, and our retarded criminal justice system.

Our criminal justice system is retarded, I'll agree more with the dems than republicans on that one.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Because overall suicide is not the basis for gun policy, gun related death is.

The idea of using gun policy to address gun related-violence while using other policies to address the causes which have a much bigger influence on overall rates(mental health for example) aren't mutually exclusive.

But, as has been shown, it doesn't actually reduce suicide. It is a non sequitur pursuit. You won't tackle suicide.

It is a waste of time.

Do you wish to reduce suicide, period? Because removing guns doesn't reduce suicide. It changes how people commit suicide.

I also agree with you on segregated schools. As a start, we should get rid of dorms that are racially segregated, or special "safe spaces" where you have to have a certain color of skin to get in. There's one such "safe space" on the bottom floor of my dorm that's basically a segregated room for blacks only.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
It absolutely should be used, if you're saying that this policy saves people's lives, but in all actuality it just transfers their death from one method to another then it's a cop out.

If because of your policy instead of somebody blowing their brains out with a gun, they climb up to the roof of a building and swan dive off of it for the ground and die, then your policy hasn't actually done anything to help that person. It being no longer reflected in the gun suicide statistic but only in the overall statistic is not evidence that your policy has actually had a positive impact.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Nope, they make barely one percent of overall homicide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
And again. you're randomly assuming that it's gun control that is having that effect on non-gun related suicide rather than the host of other causes that cause those suicides.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I also agree with you on segregated schools. As a start, we should get rid of dorms that are racially segregated, or special "safe spaces" where you have to have a certain color of skin to get in. There's one such "safe space" on the bottom floor of my dorm that's basically a segregated room for blacks only.

Attack the actual systematic forces that are causing these stupid stopgap solutions.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
No, that's not where you start. Sh!t like "safe spaces" are merely systems of a much greater systematic disease.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Where did you get that stat from? Wiki is saying 67% of all homicides in 2010 were with a firearm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

Either way I don't want guns banned even though I do think having them legal comes with a certain cost. But I do think there should be some sort of way to clamp down on the insane number of guns that get leaked onto the black market and into the hands of gang members.

Some sort of registry/database system could work I think... if it made it significantly harder to sell a gun under the table.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You're right, they're symptomatic of the disease of racially collectivist ideologies like intersectional social justice and the alt-right.

You need to start with your foundation: education, criminal justice, housing, gentrification.

The legacy of our racist history is that our failings as a country regarding the impoverished, less educated, homeless, and criminals disproportionately affect minorities.

Address those failings and sh!t like intersectional social justice won't have any footing stand to on. But ignore those failings and then sh!t like intersectional social justice will continue to rise up over and over again and intensify.

If you don't attack the source of the disease, you're never going to heal the symptoms permanently.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
You need to start with your foundation: education, criminal justice, housing, gentrification.

The legacy of our racist history is that our failings as a country regarding the impoverished, less educated, homeless, and criminals disproportionately affect minorities.

I thought it was single parents with dead beat spouses regardless of race that caused a significiant number of the problems you seem to be associating with systemic racism in the USA. Of course thats just part of the problem and not the only factor.

Originally posted by snowdragon
I thought it was single parents with dead beat spouses regardless of race that caused a significiant number of the problems you seem to be associating with systemic racism in the USA.

It all goes back to the same systematic issues, and yet the only thing that politicans seem to give a fck about now these days are superfircial issues like affirmative education and safe spaces.

The fundamental issues get little to no attention. When's the last time you heard a story about how landowners abuse loopholes in our laws to make working class tenants homeless so they can get rich people to pay more rent?

When's the last time you heard a news story about school intergration?

When's the last time you heard a news story about the retarded way the lives of folks are ruined by minor crimes and sh!t that shouldn't even be a crime like smoking weed?

When's the last time you heard a major news story about voter suppression?

About how some states don't even allow ex-convicts to vote?

This country's political priorities are seriously fcked up.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Again, that's a symptom. When you're raised in awful circumstances, you're more likely to grow into the kind of fcker who beats their spouses and sh!t.