Originally posted by JBL
Not going to waste my time with superman loving fans. Believe what you want, but it has been proven countless times that Surfer is far more powerful than your version of superman. PS, not crying, but laughing. Thanks.
Surfer cant seriously harm Superman via raw power.. Period. Continue to weep bitter tears about that fact.
Darkseid one shots him. Easily.
Just trying to break it down.
Darkseid shouldn't one shot Surfer, but he is capable of doing physical damage to him. I can't see him for example; breaking his arm like he broke Hal's arm. This is a guy that went up against Morg which showed roughly just how strong the Surfer is.
Bringing up the Thor fight would probably hold no weight, because he hasn't fought Thor as an enemy, or serious threat since their first big showdown in this comic.
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The Surfer is actually very strong when focused He easily slapped Maestro aside. but then again, the Surfer has power over gamma powered characters, which is what most, if not all positive based stars give off. Not something that he can count on with Darkseid I guess? unless DS operates on a wavelength that he could interface with?
Darkseid's OE could be a serious problem for the Surfer if he didn't know to evade. But luckily enough, that in this case the Surfer is aware of Darkseid's power set, as he is aware of Surfer's according to forum rules at least.
Could the Surfer outrace them? Yes, but he could also be hit by them. If hit, it's over. Cosmic awareness given by the power cosmic would help the Surfer avoid the OE.
If not, can the Surfer's powers hurt Darkseid if he was operating at peak power?
Which Darkseid portrayal are we talking about here as well? I have difficulty believing all of the hype after seeing Darkseid defeated by Superman.
This is not meant to be a blow to Superman, but we truly need clarity on where to begin measuring Darkseid.
It gave me the idea that Zod could also put a hurting on Darkseid, which also happens to bring up myriads of other characters that should be able to do the same.
I truly wonder for example if Despero could physically contend with Darkseid? Or be too much of a physical threat even?
Mangog would devour any character that could be beaten by Zod, who weighs in at approximately a fully powered count Nefaria level character? This is arguable of course but it seems fair.
If any of that is true, can we use it in terms of getting a clearer picture of how physically powerful Darkseid really is, while unaided by the ALE or outside forces?
Is the Surfer strong enough, to physically subdue Darkseid and hold him in place?
If not is he fast enough to make Darkseid hit himself with the OE?
Can the Surfer contend? Why or, why not?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The problem is that you're linking it to Superman.Who is the cash cow, and fulfills the role Batman has amongst non powered DC heroes.
You wouldn't say 'oh, so and so is weak because Batman has tagged them', just as you shouldn't say 'so and so is weak because Superman has fought them'.
Except that Superman has also fought Zod, and Doomsday has beaten the mess out of Darkseid. How would you figure out just how powerful Darkseid is?
Are we truly trying to say that Orion is a Galactus level threat, which by proxy also implies that Darkseid is as well? Which then makes Superman balloon out to proportions unseemly to situations that fully challenge him like Zod and Doomsday repeatedly do. Their most recent fight pitted Superman up against a Doomsday that hadn't yet faced him. He fully knew what type of a beast he was facing, and was still unable to put him away. Does this mean that the Doomsday that Superman most recently faced would crush Galactus?
So how much does Darkseid weigh without the ALE or outside forces IYO?
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
is Average Darksied Thanos level?
I don't know, I was trying to figure that out myself but it seems as if no one wants to find a method of figuring out how powerful he is? I can only go off of his battles and comparisons that he himself made concerning being peers of Orion and Superman in terms of power.
Then you have other characters that are only Superman's level when Superman is holding back, despite either being Kryptonian, or Doomsday himself.
At this point, where do you begin to form an argument for one guy that has no set level, because of the idea that every time he's made an appearance no one knew if it was really him, or some avatar?
I would say he lower level than Thanos but I also do think he jobs a lot because he when he does show up, it's usually vs Superman
In Darkseid wars, if that's what people consider as his average, than he destroys this match. I would like people to just say what they assume his average is when they conclude who wins
Darkseid on average is able to go blow for blow with full power Superman. Even assuming he might be a little weaker than Superman, he’s still more than powerful enough to handle the combined efforts of the heaviest hitters in the JLA.
I could argue Hal Jordan’s superiority over SS. Darkseid treats him like fodder.
DS 10/10.
Originally posted by Stoic
Except that Superman has also fought Zod, and Doomsday has beaten the mess out of Darkseid. How would you figure out just how powerful Darkseid is?Are we truly trying to say that Orion is a Galactus level threat, which by proxy also implies that Darkseid is as well? Which then makes Superman balloon out to proportions unseemly to situations that fully challenge him like Zod and Doomsday repeatedly do. Their most recent fight pitted Superman up against a Doomsday that hadn't yet faced him. He fully knew what type of a beast he was facing, and was still unable to put him away. Does this mean that the Doomsday that Superman most recently faced would crush Galactus?
So how much does Darkseid weigh without the ALE or outside forces IYO?
Why is Orion a Galactus' level threat? He's fated to kill DS,so any showings relative to DS is circumspect.
Again,using ABC logic doesn't work. By that logic, Batman is the greatest character of all time. He's tanked a bloodlusted GoW Wonder Woman when injured and half naked....when a calm WW was able to fight Grail.
He was able to hurt beings that Flash couldn't.
Said Grail had been able to do etc etc etc and do you see what I'm trying to say?
You're using the Carver route,which focusses purely on fight showings. But writers don't give two hoots about power levels, lol. It's why Superman can rise to the occasion, and fight DS. Why Thor can summon the winds from a thousand world's, and hurt Glory/Chaos King. Why Hulk can tire the Inbetweener out. Why Wally can destroy Anti Monitors armour. Why etc etc.
Originally posted by deathslash
.....he manhandled a team consisting of Power girl, Val Zod, Dr Fate, Flash, obsidian, Steel, Jonni Thunder, Huntress, Batman, Aquawoman, red arrow, and Hawkgirl.http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-94tpcClVeUI/VRKGdmuwFvI/AAAAAAAJErU/TWsEYMeW7XQ/s1600/p2_5.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-G_eYcFzbi-E/VRKGew6HxwI/AAAAAAAJErw/ovtFbm0-w3c/s1600/p2_7.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JAcWiSU0Th4/VRKGfGbLQGI/AAAAAAAJErs/_ZmcrQMZXbI/s1600/p2_8%2Bcopy.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-f3MZ5R77yKY/VRKGftqqayI/AAAAAAAJEss/RVxNfbCOYZw/s1600/p2_9%2Bcopy.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MXHHEvJb3TI/VRKGZ6Zj6II/AAAAAAAJEqU/Yt0PzmDxTy0/s1600/p2_10%2Bcopy.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-anGxeXgNQ7E/VRKGaNpUh0I/AAAAAAAJEqY/KaGUgAQjyY8/s1600/p2_11%2Bcopy.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CUx3qDKTd4k/VRKGcP8zHrI/AAAAAAAJEq4/53WyHvIcxGs/s1600/p2_16%2Bcopy.jpg
Those E2 jokers are not even close to Surfer though...
Originally posted by krisblaze😐 flash alone pushed one of the female furies into infinity. Power girl has several feats that put her on par with normal Supergirl if not above. When he got serious, Val Zod manhandled an amped clone of Superman. Batman is using the miraculo pills (which put him physically on par with hour man). Do I even need to mention that not even ten seconds after stomping this team, he stomps an amped avatar of the green?
Those E2 jokers are not even close to Surfer though...
