US Prisons: How do we...

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]How Small? Let me guess. You are a big Dope Addict?

Much like your On Line name. You need Weed to be what you would deem "Truly Happy"?

Or to be more accurate. "ARTIFICIALLY HAPPY"?

Goes back to the point. We shouldn't fight crime. [/B]

No, I don't and never have used drugs. And honestly, I don't think someone named 'Flyattractor' should be throwing stones. You know, glass houses and all that.

We should fight crime that's actually crime. Drug usage is almost always a problem of a different nature and treating drug users as criminals is stupid and counterproductive.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]LOL! My Fave Part of the vid was how it commented on how the War on DRUGS has Negatively affected Millions of People, but No Mention of how Drug Use has Negatively Affected People... SO yeah...
😱 [/B]

This is a non sequitur argument. As AG pointed out, the War on Drugs did not affect drug use.

And if someone points you to facts about it, you'll just pretend the facts are made up from the leftist agenda. So there's no reasoning with someone like you.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]So we should just dismantle all aspects of "Law Enforcement"
Because that would be the Easiest thing to do.

Gotchya. [/B]

This is a strawman. At no point did any say or suggest to dismantle all aspects of law enforcement. Unless you erroneously believe that all law enforcement exists to fight the war on drugs. That's obviously false but i would not put it past you to believe something so stupid.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]From the Prevailing Mentality of " Since we Can't Stop It, we Should't TRY". Can't Stop Rape, Can't Stop Murder, Can't Stop Theft, Can't Stop Drugs. SHOULDN'T even TRY!

Pretty much sums it up for the Modern Left. [/B]

This is another strawman. At no point did anyone suggest we shouldn't try. In fact, it was suggested we do things differently that have an objectively higher success rate for reducing drug related crimes and drug use.

Doing things differently, based on science is not "we will stop trying, I guess!"

fly. you can't be this simple and mentally conditioned

What is simple about it?

I don't deal in grays.

If you want to do Drugs, move to wear it is LEGAL! Leave the places that don't want to give in to your illicit Vices be.

You want to waste your life as a burned out leech. All the power to you.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
That's for the law to decide, but if you have barrels of meth in your basement, then you're obviously going to try to sell it and that should be a crime.

I sincerely doubt this.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]What is simple about it?

I don't deal in grays.

If you want to do Drugs, move to wear it is LEGAL! Leave the places that don't want to give in to your illicit Vices be.

You want to waste your life as a burned out leech. All the power to you. [/B]

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]What is simple about it?

I don't deal in grays.

If you want to do Drugs, move to wear it is LEGAL! Leave the places that don't want to give in to your illicit Vices be.

You want to waste your life as a burned out leech. All the power to you. [/B]

The easiest thing is to say, "if you don't like how things are done over here, just move". That's not how it works though, because if it did, the US would still have Jim Crow laws, anti-sodomy laws, and the Prohibition(the War on Booze) would still be around. Would you make an argument in favour of the misguided policies I just mentioned? I imagine not. Laws and policies that do more harm than good need to be challenged and struck down.

If you want fewer burnt out addicts and leeches around, then a serious change in policy is in order. Starting with abolition of the counterproductive War on Drugs.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]I sincerely doubt this. [/B]

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Well yeah, but that's the point of looking at things per capita. If a country like Germany wanted to imprison the same percentage of its population as the US, it would easily have both the money and the capacity to do so.

European countries are more lax it seems with a lot of their sentencing. On the extreme end of the spectrum, I remember that shooter in Norway who killed like 70+ people was only given like 25 years or something like that because that's the maximum sentence in Norway. I doubt most Americans would even think of adopting that sort of a policy.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Then you better start dealing in grays because while black and white do exist, most of the world is gray.

😱

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I'm not saying European countries lack the capacity... I was thinking more of third worldish countries such as China.

European countries are more lax it seems with a lot of their sentencing. On the extreme end of the spectrum, I remember that shooter in Norway who killed like 70+ people was only given like 25 years or something like that because that's the maximum sentence in Norway. I doubt most Americans would even think of adopting that sort of a policy.

You're talking about Breivik. He got 21 years because that's the maximum in Norway, but in reality he's never getting out since Norwegian law allows for extension of a prisoner's sentence if he/she is still deemed dangerous after his/her sentence is over. Not such a bad system if you ask me.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]

Gray is still Dirty. If you choose to do DIRTY, then that makes you a Wrong Doer.
No matter how you Like to Rationalize it, You are still doing WRONG!

And that is why the world is a "GRAY" Place...

😱 [/B]

Flyboy is a good example of why the war on drugs isn't working. 🙁

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Yeah, like I said, I don't know about China. Still, even if they let over half of all their criminals go, they'd still have way more people in prisons than the US.

You're talking about Breivik. He got 21 years because that's the maximum in Norway, but in reality he's never getting out since Norwegian law allows for extension of a prisoner's sentence if he/she is still deemed dangerous after his/her sentence is over. Not such a bad system if you ask me.

That's Manichean nonsense. No wonder you seem to be so disconnected from reality when you hold such a simplistic worldview. The desire to see everything in black and white, perhaps ironically, leads to evil as positive change is refused for not being perfect(white) enough. Your resistance to ending the War on Drugs is a great example of this.

In fact.. they've been busted not only for locking up political prisoners but for extorting slave labor out of them in prison work camps. Prisoners work in some sort of manufacturing environment and make products which are then sold to front companies which sell the goods on the free market as goods that were made by legit paid workers. The name of the Chinese prison camps is the Loagai... which translates in Chinese to an abbreviated form of some phrase that means "reform through labor."

On Norway... I didn't realize they could just extend it like that. Sort of renders the rule useless to me, but I do think that's better than having a real 21 year maximum.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Well, when you're dealing with 1.5 billion people, many of whom are in abject poverty, I'm thinking it will get a bit costly to have the kind of robust prison system the United States has. My only point is we're always so quick to point out our own flaws, but I reject the basic idea that China has any sort of edge on us in terms of their criminal justice system. They execute the most people annually and they lock people up for thought crimes. So I guess I'm just saying there can be any number of reasons why China has less prisoners... but it's not because they're less of a police state.

In fact.. they've been busted not only for locking up political prisoners but for extorting slave labor out of them in prison work camps. Prisoners work in some sort of manufacturing environment and make products which are then sold to front companies which sell the goods on the free market as goods that were made by legit paid workers. The name of the Chinese prison camps is the Loagai... which translates in Chinese to an abbreviated form of some phrase that means "reform through labor."

On Norway... I didn't realize they could just extend it like that. Sort of renders the rule useless to me, but I do think that's better than having a real 21 year maximum.

"Reform through labor".

When they say the pen is mightier then the sword, this is part of what that means. Simply redefine slave labor as "rehab" (Or in the case of undocumented migrants being held hostage by a business that knows they can't go to the police or quit their jobs, of people looking for a better life who we shouldn't meddle with..)

"Reform through labor" is just a fancy name for slavery. And it's immoral for us to further punish people who have already been punished.

Reform through labor should be
A. Optional
B. Something priosoners want to do because the goverment would offer a cleansing of the permanent record and a salary in exchange.

I'm all for reforming people...who haven't committed serious crimes. Murder or rape, on the other hand, you die or you get castrated or you get solitary confinement forever.

"Rapists get castrated or killed"-Ben Shapiro

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
"Reform through labor" is just a fancy name for slavery. And it's immoral for us to further punish people who have already been punished.

Reform through labor should be
A. Optional
B. Something priosoners want to do because the goverment would offer a cleansing of the permanent record and a salary in exchange.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Yeah, like I said, I don't know about China. Still, even if they let over half of all their criminals go, they'd still have way more people in prisons than the US.

You're talking about Breivik. He got 21 years because that's the maximum in Norway, but in reality he's never getting out since Norwegian law allows for extension of a prisoner's sentence if he/she is still deemed dangerous after his/her sentence is over. Not such a bad system if you ask me.

That's Manichean nonsense. No wonder you seem to be so disconnected from reality when you hold such a simplistic worldview. The desire to see everything in black and white, perhaps ironically, leads to evil as positive change is refused for not being perfect(white) enough. Your resistance to ending the War on Drugs is a great example of this.

Yep. Sure it is. That is called RATIONALIZING to a Fine Point.

That is why you are pretty much a horrible person. AG.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Flyboy is a good example of why the war on drugs isn't working. 🙁

Love is My Drug Benny. Whats yours?

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Yep. Sure it is. That is called RATIONALIZING to a Fine Point.

That is why you are pretty much a horrible person. AG.

Love is My Drug Benny. Whats yours? [/B]

yeah. Its the POLICY that is harmful, not the WANTON DRUG USE!

And you accuse me of living in a DREAM WORLD!