Why is Hulk more of a threat than Juggernaut?

Originally posted by Digi
Calls of forum bias are a bit unwarranted, because you're referring to hundreds of people from years ago, whose motivations and opinions differed wildly from our own. My only point in mentioning forum opinion was to show that even if you took the upper ranges of the spectrum on Hulk, it was an order of magnitude lower than it is today. I don't care about characters receiving a power-up, but it's somewhat undeniable that a sizable one happened for Hulk.

But there was forum bias. You can squirm around it but there is no denying that. If you want to argue Hulk was so much less powerful than Thor before 90s you've to ignore 99% of their encounters.

Sure. There aren't exact moments where we can point to as turning points, and Thor's heyday - especially relative to Hulk - was in the 70s and 80s. Stan's words were equivocating somewhat: he's not going to embarrass one of his bigger characters in a head-to-head battle (he knows his audience, and every era had a bit of "vs. forum mentality" in it), but the respect with which Thor was consistently treated placed him firmly higher during Stan's era. The main thrust of my point is that it's been an exceedingly good 10-12 years for Hulk. It's not that he lacked good showings relative to his peers, but they weren't quite as over-the-top and the consistency wasn't there. I mean, we're talking about Juggernaut in this thread, but I can recall a 90s Hulk where Hulk v. Thing would have been a legitimate discussion. But especially the mid to late 90s - with its roided out machismo - was a good tonal fit for the Hulk's persona, so he undoubtedly benefited from it. I think the fact that your primary example was retconned is a good way to show both sides: Hulk wasn't yet where he would be, but that transition (for Thor as well) was starting to take effect.

Hulk vs Thing wasn't a, discussion in 70s much less 90s. Thing straight up ran away from Hulk and at one point stole a cab to get away.

Hulk has always been a very good match for Thor and frankly the level of disrespect for the character at times is ridiculous on forums.

Taken in context with the OP's question, though, I think my point holds up quite well.

Not exactly.

I think both abhi (did not capitalise for you stilt) and Digi is on point. The Thor vs Hulk fight back then is basically a personal opinion on what you think of thought the outcome should've been.

Originally posted by Mindship
Why? Because Hulk is strongest there is, and the madder he gets ...

Unless youre oml or hawkeye........amirite?

Originally posted by abhilegend
But there was forum bias. You can squirm around it but there is no denying that. If you want to argue Hulk was so much less powerful than Thor before 90s you've to ignore 99% of their encounters.

Hulk vs Thing wasn't a, discussion in 70s much less 90s. Thing straight up ran away from Hulk and at one point stole a cab to get away.

Hulk has always been a very good match for Thor and frankly the level of disrespect for the character at times is ridiculous on forums.

Not exactly.

Stop being so ****ing obtuse, you're an adult ****ing man.

Thor eventually winning a fight and the two of them being closely matched are in no way mutually exclusive.

Lee said that he thought Thor would edge out a win and none of their encounters reached the point where they prove such a statement wrong.

There's no point in being resentful towards a community that you were not a part of.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Stop being so ****ing obtuse, you're an adult ****ing man.

😂

Thor eventually winning a fight and the two of them being closely matched are in no way mutually exclusive.

Lee said that he thought Thor would edge out a win and none of their encounters reached the point where they prove such a statement wrong.

Except there was no such scene in the comics where Thor eventually won. It was all a hypothesis.

There's no point in being resentful towards a community that you were not a part of.

Who says I'm resentful?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Uh no? Stan himself didn't write Thor beating Hulk when they fought. It was Jim Shooter who declared Thor as "Marvel's Superman" and thus protected as well. As soon as Shooter left, Thor started declining.

Even in 90s Hulk beat the shit out of Thor in Heroes Reborn. It was retconned by Walt Simonson but still it showed Thor wasn't top dog anymore.
It was also the time where when push come to shove, Hulk broke Onslaught's armor after matching him while Thor was a spectator.

The early forums were heavily biased towards versatility and some still are. It heavily reeks of "author hate" TBH. Comics have always put strength over versatility barring a few exceptions.

Are you f*cking retarded? In JiM #112 Stan had Thor ask Odin to completely strip Mjolnir -and himself by extension- of his godly powers and they went to stalemate in h2h. The huge gulf in power is illustrated by Hulk being unable to wrest Mjolnir out of Thor's grasp or do basically anything against his vortex etc. He was literally hitting a brick wall trying to match Mjolnir.

30 years later, even with the artist being HEAVILY biased (To the point he wrote another issue 10 years later after. Like Pak, it was an obsession), Stan had Hulk get the advantage but STILL had Thor completely separated from Mjolnir and fought Hulk in pure h2h to a near stalemate.

Stan had Thor firmly superior to Hulk in every category but strength and to any idiot who's read classic Thor, the power of the Thunder God, his inability to just stay down and his hammer is what made him an unstoppable force.

Again, you're a f*cking idiot. Hulk couldn't beat Thor in h2h when he utilized no other power. What do you think would happen if he used his full power? Under Lee and Kirby, he'd annihilate the Hulk to the point it wasn't even worth debating. He existed on a completely other scale compared to every other Marvel hero for like 30 years.

Stan has said numerous times that Thor is the most powerful hero in Marvel and how does he write the three most iconic battles in Marvel history for the top competitors?

Vs. Surfer? Thor holds back significantly and Surfer is hugely amped. Flat out said Thor is way more powerful.

Vs. Hulk? Thor is flat out more powerful when using his mystical abilities and stalemates the Hulk in h2H and specifically strips himself of his godly power to make it a FAIR fight. Hmm, so if Thor used his powers it would be unfair? Idiot.

Vs Hercules? Thor puts away his hammer and godly powers, is holding back and Mjolnir is beyond Hercules comprehension, and only losses after he has his strength cut in half (Might be thinking of two different fights as one but whatever)

What a shocker. What a contradiction. There is clearly no pattern of events here that suggest huge handicaps have to exist for Thor to make it competitive.

You're an idiot and if you ever want to battle zone classic Thor vs. classic Hulk/Surfer/Hercules lmk. I know you love threatening those. Let me take your lunch money and spank your ass so bad your mom disowns you.

Fagg0t.

Rage what's good man lol?

Ragnarok came out and these WHORINSON lovers don't know how to act!!!

Shit I wasn't really angry with Abhi, calm down Rage.

I told Rage to remember his true self, let him be.

This place finally feels like KMC.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Are you f*cking retarded? In JiM #112 Stan had Thor ask Odin to completely strip Mjolnir -and himself by extension- of his godly powers and they went to stalemate in h2h. The huge gulf in power is illustrated by Hulk being unable to wrest Mjolnir out of Thor's grasp or do basically anything against his vortex etc. He was literally hitting a brick wall trying to match Mjolnir.

30 years later, even with the artist being HEAVILY biased (To the point he wrote another issue 10 years later after. Like Pak, it was an obsession), Stan had Hulk get the advantage but STILL had Thor completely separated from Mjolnir and fought Hulk in pure h2h to a near stalemate.

Stan had Thor firmly superior to Hulk in every category but strength and to any idiot who's read classic Thor, the power of the Thunder God, his inability to just stay down and his hammer is what made him an unstoppable force.

Again, you're a f*cking idiot. Hulk couldn't beat Thor in h2h when he utilized no other power. What do you think would happen if he used his full power? Under Lee and Kirby, he'd annihilate the Hulk to the point it wasn't even worth debating. He existed on a completely other scale compared to every other Marvel hero for like 30 years.

Stan has said numerous times that Thor is the most powerful hero in Marvel and how does he write the three most iconic battles in Marvel history for the top competitors?

Vs. Surfer? Thor holds back significantly and Surfer is hugely amped. Flat out said Thor is way more powerful.

Vs. Hulk? Thor is flat out more powerful when using his mystical abilities and stalemates the Hulk in h2H and specifically strips himself of his godly power to make it a FAIR fight. Hmm, so if Thor used his powers it would be unfair? Idiot.

Vs Hercules? Thor puts away his hammer and godly powers, is holding back and Mjolnir is beyond Hercules comprehension, and only losses after he has his strength cut in half (Might be thinking of two different fights as one but whatever)

What a shocker. What a contradiction. There is clearly no pattern of events here that suggest huge handicaps have to exist for Thor to make it competitive.

You're an idiot and if you ever want to battle zone classic Thor vs. classic Hulk/Surfer/Hercules lmk. I know you love threatening those. Let me take your lunch money and spank your ass so bad your mom disowns you.

Fagg0t.

Aww, look who is here.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Are you f*cking retarded? In JiM #112 Stan had Thor ask Odin to completely strip Mjolnir -and himself by extension- of his godly powers and they went to stalemate in h2h. The huge gulf in power is illustrated by Hulk being unable to wrest Mjolnir out of Thor's grasp or do basically anything against his vortex etc. He was literally hitting a brick wall trying to match Mjolnir.

Hey mongoloid, Stan himself wrote Hulk as the most powerful being on Earth while Thor also appeared in FF 25. Same was again Reiterated in Amazing Spider-Man 14. He wrote that only mjolnir could do what Hulk did in Avengers 5.

Hulk not being able to wrest mjolnir was because of the enchantment. Thor created a dimensional disruption and hid away from the Hulk.

What a mighty power.

30 years later, even with the artist being HEAVILY biased (To the point he wrote another issue 10 years later after. Like Pak, it was an obsession), Stan had Hulk get the advantage but STILL had Thor completely separated from Mjolnir and fought Hulk in pure h2h to a near stalemate.

By stalemate you mean beat the everloving shit out of him, right? Hulk took six hammer shots and only had a minor nosebleed.

What else do you expect from a puny god?

Stan had Thor firmly superior to Hulk in every category but strength and to any idiot who's read classic Thor, the power of the Thunder God, his inability to just stay down and his hammer is what made him an unstoppable force.

Except no? Thor was threatened by bullets under Stan and a mortar koed him.

Hulk was considered equal to him even then.

Again, you're a f*cking idiot. Hulk couldn't beat Thor in h2h when he utilized no other power. What do you think would happen if he used his full power? Under Lee and Kirby, he'd annihilate the Hulk to the point it wasn't even worth debating. He existed on a completely other scale compared to every other Marvel hero for like 30 years.

Hahaha, that's why Hulk matched non holding back Thor with mjolnir shot for shot in Hulk 300? Or had advantage over him in Hulk 254?

Its mere hypothesis if Thor could beat Hulk with mjolnir as he never did.

Stan has said numerous times that Thor is the most powerful hero in Marvel and how does he write the three most iconic battles in Marvel history for the top competitors?

Vs. Surfer? Thor holds back significantly and Surfer is hugely amped. Flat out said Thor is way more powerful.

That's why Stan is a fickle man. Later in SS enslavers Reed flat out says Surfer is the most powerful being in galaxy and does far better than Thor against the same foes.

Vs. Hulk? Thor is flat out more powerful when using his mystical abilities and stalemates the Hulk in h2H and specifically strips himself of his godly power to make it a FAIR fight. Hmm, so if Thor used his powers it would be unfair? Idiot.

Only mjolnir was stripped of power.

Hulk was flat out said to be the most powerful being on earth by Stan Lee. Mind showing the same for Thor?

Vs Hercules? Thor puts away his hammer and godly powers, is holding back and Mjolnir is beyond Hercules comprehension, and only losses after he has his strength cut in half (Might be thinking of two different fights as one but whatever)

Hercules was always a ***** so no arguments there.

What a shocker. What a contradiction. There is clearly no pattern of events here that suggest huge handicaps have to exist for Thor to make it competitive.

You're an idiot and if you ever want to battle zone classic Thor vs. classic Hulk/Surfer/Hercules lmk. I know you love threatening those. Let me take your lunch money and spank your ass so bad your mom disowns you.

Fagg0t.

Hahaha, did something happened to you Rage? Did the gamma fans molested you or something?

Originally posted by krisblaze
Shit I wasn't really angry with Abhi, calm down Rage.

I've missed War Rage. The only true Rage.

Suppose it could be worse , he could be a pseudo intellectual elitist superf*g.

And that's just Pr.

Heyo!!

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Suppose it could be worse , he could be a pseudo intellectual elitist superf*g.

“Roidy” classic standard response from someone who has no clue about working out , eating right and conditioning yourself right.

Don’t get mad at me because you’re too lazy and weak to push yourself.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Hulk is by far a larger threat. look at their most impressive destruction feats. You can't even begin to compare the two. Cain is a Wonder Man level character in terms of strength, with a nearly indestructible body or force field keeping him from taking direct damage.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Unless youre oml or hawkeye........amirite?

Also, I was saying it partly (only partly) in jest. There are so many top-tier bricks, it's hard to keep score, but imo, Hulk should be strongest there is (what can I say: I'm a purist and that's Hulk's tag) ... but he's got a lot of competition (WBH aside).